I just bought a 97 22L
It needs lots of work.
One thing I will do is remove the toilet permanently. Black water is gross, smells, hard to clean and I do not have passengers that require to poo in the camper.
How much will it lessen the re-sale value if I do not replace it should I ever sell it, or should I plan to be ready to put it back in one day? There is no right answer to this, just opinions of each individual I guess.
Has anyone done this?

Also, I plan to remove the giant couch/bed at the front. It is huge and not much of a bed. This will open up a lot of space and reduce tongue weight a little.
What did you do with the space if you did this? (for those that have)

I will be traveling in this for work and living alone, with just day visitors and rarely friends to stay the night. I don't need so much seating, bedding and people area, looking to make it more comfortable for living in.

What have any of you done as far as taking out the factory installs and making it custom?



I have removed all curtains (smoker smell) and blinds, and the divider for bathroom, again odors. Planning to order HomeDepot blinds instead of the day/night shades, and also put curtain fabric down the sides and top of blinds, and maybe just curtains for the smaller front windows and forward window.

You will not be able to order slot blinds from HoMe Depot as the header is too wide to come down the wall. I already made this mistake. I tried ordering from an internet blind place. I told them numerous times that I needed a narrow bracket. When the blinds came they wouldn't fit. They had the conversation on tape. I had to donate the new unopened blinds to the salvation and send them the donation receit. I ended up rattle can painting the old blinds. I needed new rods for my curtains(original 1990) and got the rods at Kmart. I had to use some of the old hardware because of the dimension going down the wall. Search back posts for replacement curtain ideas that others have done. I wonder if an ozone generator would take care of the cigarette smells. Best of luck with your repairs.

Did u get 1 inch or 2 inch headers? Looks like they have 1 inch that should fit easily.

I will be over to my HiLo one day soon and will measure. I will let you know what the correct measurement is.

You must have ordered giant blinds, as there is no reason the 1 inch should not easily fit down, the factory curtains are bigger than that.
No need to measure, i can't imagine any issues.

Couch gone, lots of floor space now. Bike will be happy to be inside.

We took the dinette out for more room and made an "L" shaped couch out of it for more floor space.

I think for resale you would do well to have a toilet.

We didn't have any blinds when we got our Hi-lo but we bought those little round curtain rods and attached them to the wall with I guess they are plastic pipe brackets. They hold the rods close to the wall so they don't get in the way when we lower the Hi-Lo. The curtains we just pull up out of the way when we lower it.

DH says the header on the standard blinds are a 1inch cube. 1x1x1x1x1. New blinds come with at least a 1 and 1/4 header that won't fit when you lower the HiLo. I ended up loosing a 15% stocking fee. Just trying to get you to not make the same mistake. I could see how a close fitting round curtain knob would work. My curtains have a top piece that goes on a round rod.

Odd. I can fit probably 3 inches between the walls.
The daynight shades I took out are about the same thickness as the blinds hanging from my house window, and then there were curtain things over that.
Sounds like you have a smaller gap between walls than does mine.
I will double check the measurements just incase, but a 3 inch gap and a 1 1/4 inch blind does not leave room for mystery…
I can't imagine why yours did not fit.

My unit is a 1990 25ft. Classic. Your is a 97. Could be different. Measure and maybe get a cheap plastic blind at walmart and try one before you change them all. I know you said you were going to make curtains. Try looking at back posts for ideas.

I like your thinking on making mods that benifit the way you want to camp.

One thing to remember when removing or adding weight is the balance. A lot of calculations have gone into your trailer having the proper tongue weight. In removing the couch you will save weight but you will be upsetting the balance and may have a trailer that will be difficult to tow or possibly dangerous.

Be smart for your and others safety!

Good point. That extra empty space will be more opportunity to over-load the tongue in this instance though. I want to put a chest of drawers built in, but that will only partly compensate for the couch, but the couch was not that heavy.
I will add two batteries and those will be tongue weight since need to be close to TV.
The couch is such a huge space waster.

Re: weight distribution I'm assuming this is a common sense issue and that there's no way to measure this - except that I have seen trucks obviously weighted down!

No, there ARE ways to measure the weight distribution on a trailer. One way is to do two weighings on something like a CAT scale, one with the trailer connected to the Tow Vehicle so that the weight on the trailer axles does not include the tongue weight, and then one with the trailer "dropped" on the scale, so it sees the entire weight.

Another way is to own a tongue weight scale like I do. Then you only need to know the total trailer weight.

If the TV is sagging in the rear, it's a sign that a Weight Distribution Hitch is either needed or is not properly set up.

- Jack

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Hi-Lo 1707T - Tire Minder TPMS on Tow Vehicle and Trailer, 300W Solar Battery Charger, Equal-i-zer WDH, Progressive Dynamics Converter, Fan-Tastic Fan, LiFePO4 battery 12V DC Electrical System, SoftStartRV mounted on A/C
2024 F150 Platinum FX4 3.5L PowerBoost SCrew

Tongue weight is mostly structural concern? There is a weight limit on the trailer tongue that should not be exceeded.
My hitch can take 2,400lbs on the ball, so the trailer tongue is weak link in the system, (or the frame which is probably not going to break before the springs bottom out.)…
I think worrying about a 50 lb couch is less than how you load your goodies up for the trip.
I guess you could encounter some sway from a lot of weight at the tongue, but not as bad as weight at the rear.
Big rigs and bumper pull horse trailers have wheels at the very back so the "tongue" is loaded quite heavy, the tongue being everything in front of the axles…
Let's not be worried about a couch.

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1997 22L
Renovation complete!

Wow! Marininn has a Class 5 Xtra duty trailer hitch, capable of pulling a trailer weighing between 15,000-20,000#! This has to be mounted on a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, if that much tongue weight is applied, or the weight will greatly overload the Tow Vehicle's axles. Since a 22 ft HiLo rarely weighs over 5,000#, the hitch is overkill. But, you can certainly connect a HiLo to a hitch of that capacity.

Most of us don't have that much carrying capacity. I know I don't - my Class 3 hitch is rated at 600# tongue weight and 6000# for the trailer.

What was stated about the weight of a couch in reference to a Class 5 hitch is totally correct, but for most of us, we have to use a bit of judgement in how we add extra weight to the trailer.

And, to minimize trailer sway, you want 10-15% of the trailer's gross weight on the tongue. (12% seems to be about optimum).

- Jack

Would you mind posting a pic of what it looks like without the couch? What kind of bike are you putting in there? Just curious.

My class III broke, the IV was less than $200 new, and I installed it, so why not have something to match the TV's 17,000 towing rating…. And, I doubt this one will ever break towing campers.
Yea, a couch is not something to worry about in the grand scheme of things.
My trailer has weight dist bars, which seems over-kill to me, but that should help level out the ride. Havent towed it yet other than home.
Ill take a pic of floor plan next time the roof is up.

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1997 22L
Renovation complete!

Jack/Marinn - where is the freshwater tank? Isn’t it over/just behind the axles on a Hi-Lo?

Not that it’s crucial info, more as a starting point for discussing weight/distribution. Distribution can change dramatically just from filling the freshwater tank (30 gal*11lbs=300lbs).

The couch isn’t really important, *distribution* is, and we all have to consider this every single time we take our trailers out. Which is why a tongue scale is so important an investment - just take the guesswork out for under $150 (5000lb scale on Amaxon right now for $145).

Get the trailer weighed empty one time. Then weigh whatever you’re going to add to ensure under the GVW for trailer and TV. Then use tongue scale to ensure proper loading.

All campers should come with a tongue scale, in my opinion.

As for bathroom - a camper without a toilet is not really much more than a Coleman. I think that will really kill resale. BUT...are you doing all this for resale or usabililty for you?

I drive my truck to the scale and weigh it. I go back and get the trailer and come back to the scale and pull the truck on it with the trailer hooked up( distribution bars NOT hooked up) but no trailer wheels on scale. The difference of the new weight to the old weight is my tongue weight. I then pull ahead and get truck axles OFF the scale but leave trailer wheels on it. The new weight is what I have on the trailer axles ( trailer weight minus tongue weight-which is how you drive more or less). If I want- I can pull off, set the distribution bars, and go back and figure how much weight I have thrown back onto trailer axles. My concern is not the tongue breaking- it is the weight on trailer axles and weight on my tow vehicle. Bot have a recommended maximum.

Rick

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2201 TL

2010 Nissan Titan king cab SE
4x4

Knotty - my freshwater tank is right behind the A-frame tongue battery box, so filling it adds about 100# to the tongue load (about 1/3 of the full tank's weight. Other trailers may have different locations for that tank, but I suspect most are near the front. It's better, sway-control wise, to increase the weight on the tongue rather than decreasing it.

The black and gray water tanks in my trailer are at the rear, and my owner's manual says to empty them before towing. Full black and grey tanks would decrease the tongue weight.

I second your comment about weight "distribution".

- Jack