Thanks, Tom - I almost posted this question in your "Yellowstone" thread, because I think your design is the same as mine. Two inches of clearance is about what I think there should be too. 3/8" is ridiculous.

Those were great pictures, by the way. Janet and I had planned a trip to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons next month, but her Son has decided the time we were going to go is when he wants to get married, so, I guess the trip will be next year. We were at Bryce late last summer - It's a beautiful park too, isn't it?

My all time favorite though, is Rocky Mountain National Park. The hikes there are almost TOO beautiful.

Again, thanks for the feedback on the clearance between your tire and the step frame. If anyone else has additional info, I'm all ears!

- Jack

OK, I finally go my trailer back from the RV shop where they fixed the brake (I hope). I plan to take the drum off to check anyway.

But, I immediately towed it to a CAT scale. Talked to the nice lady there and she let me drop the trailer on one scale with my truck on the other.

With no water in the tanks, the total trailer weight is 3520#. If I fill the fresh water tank and water heater, it will weigh 3820#, which is just 20# under the max gross weight! The weight today included full propane tanks (40#), an extra battery (at maybe 50#) and odds and ends like pots, pans, a few 1# propane tanks, plastic chocks and levelers, sewer hoses, water hose and a few wrenches and screwdrivers. I estimate the "odds 'n ends" to weigh no more than 40# and they are uniformly distributed. Everything else is factory installed and that weight was supposedly only 3001#! The weight SHOULD have been 3131#.

So, somehow my trailer has gained about 3520 - 3131 = 389#!

In careful reading of my "weight placard", it says the UVW includes "ALL WEIGHT AT THE TRAILER AXLE(S) AND TONGUE OR PIN". So, is it possible this does not include the weight of the axle itself or the wheels? That MIGHT be where the additional 389# came from. I imagine the tires and rims weigh close to 100# total, and the axle does not "support" them. And possibly the axle's weight is not included in its weight limit of 3500#. (Maybe that is an "unsprung" weight limit).

However, my tongue weight in this configuration is still 460#, or about 13% of the total and if I fill the fresh water tank it jumps to 630# which is 16.5% of the total and overloads my class 3, 600#, WD hitch!

An ideal hitch weight is between 12-15%, or 458-573#. I'd like it to be about 480#, or 12.6% of the total at 3820#, but to get this, I'll need the axle moved forward about 5.3"!

This is clearly a design mistake. With Hi-Lo closed down, I don't know what to do, except to warn other owners of 17 ft Hi-Los that they may also be overloaded. I'm telling you now, it's worth getting an accurate measurement of the weights on your axle and at your hitch.

I'm going to try to get the axle moved as far forward as possible, and if I can do this, I'll report back on the resulting loading. If I can't get it moved, I'll probably trade it in for some other trailer, and hope the poor soul who buys it has better luck than I did.

The trouble is, except for the weight problem, we LOVE this trailer!

- Jack

Jack did you add in the weight of your built in wardrobe drawer unit you added. Plus the pots and pan slider? Did you build in any others in the trailer?
Hi-LO has been building the 17 design for many years , and I have run into lots of owners of them on our travels , and have also been on the Yahoo
Hi-Lo forum or group for awhile. And have heard of no similar problems. I am sure the weight numbers you have are real , I do not dispute it weights more then it should and your axle was located to far back , and I do not know the weight on mine , but I know I have towed it all over the southwest in the same heat and hill conditions as you in Tucson with no tire or axle problems. I know I load mine more then you based on your list , when we go out for two weeks my wife tends to load every inch of the trailer with food and her stuff (items not used but could be needed). Maybee that improper axle position is most of your problems , and if you get that moved things will be fine. I am sure the axles can carry more then they are rated for , they tend to rate them shy of what they realy are good for to cover themself. Way to many of these 17s are on the road and not showing a overloaded axle or major tire problem for it to be a design flaw or miss calculation by Hi-LO. I have searched and talked to a lot of people since your post on this started and can not find another 17 owner with this problem.
I hope moving the axle does it , and you can get back the trailer you and janet love , because the 17 is a great design my wife and love as well.

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Tom
2003 Hi-Lo 17T
2013 Avalanche Black Diamond

Thanks Tom -

Yes, I actually DID include the weight of the three drawers and the little drawer under the microwave in the 40# figure for "odds n ends". I think the drawers are probably less than 10# total. And, the three biggest ones are right over the axle, so they don't add to the hitch weight. The one under the microwave is behind the axle and would take weight off of it.

I WILL say the factory installed bunk is heavy (about 80#) and the awning is heavy too (and it's center is somewhat forward of the axle). But, these factory "extras" are pretty common features, and I would have thought they compensate for those.

At the bottom of this post are three pictures (sorry for all the mud - it "poured" rain last night about 2"). The first shows the left side, which looks perfectly normal. In the second though, you see how far back the wheel is in the opening and in the third, you might be able to tell how close it is to the step frame.

Looking at this, you might think the axle is "angled", but I don't think it is - I've measured both sides very carefully and they seem the same distance back. But, I bet the right side opening is a better indicator of where the wheel SHOULD be.

IF, the axle can be moved 2.04" forward, it will reduce the tongue weight to 573#, which is 15% of the 3820# figure that includes water.

But like you said, there's too many of these on the road. I can't believe they were all designed this way.

- Jack

Attached Images

	Left Side.jpg (94.0 KB, 89 views)
	Right Side1.jpg (97.8 KB, 84 views)
	Right Side2.jpg (95.2 KB, 81 views)

It was bought new. And yes, in addition to the axle being too far back, the openings in the skirts are not equidistant. That's "cosmetic" of course. The cutout on the step side is 70 3/4" back from the front of the trailer and the one on the left side is 73 3/4" back from the front. (Measured at the front of each opening, about halfway up.)

And yes, the trailer tracks properly under tow with no abnormal wheel wear.

I suspect the axle should be nearly centered in the step side opening, which would move it forward 3". This would reduce the hitch weight to about 14.2% of the 3820# figure, and I'd be happy with that.

As I said, the openings are mostly "cosmetic", provided you can still get a wheel on an off the axle and think I could. If not, a sheet metal guy could certainly create a new section to go there. The part that contains the opening is a small piece that is riveted to the skirts in front and back of it.

I really wish I'd done something about this sooner (before the company closed).

- Jack

Yes - and you can rightly ask why I didn't realize something was wrong before this! *shrug* All I can say, is I never really thought to look much at that area until I started having problems.

But as I said, the openings in the side skirts are mostly "cosmetic", and, for some reason I didn't notice how far back the wheel was on the right side until the failed tire scraped against the step well frame.

This is the first trailer we've owned - so I've learned a lot in the short time we've had it. I'll be much more "picky" the next time around.

- Jack

Got my trailer back today from Arizona Spring. When I went down to get it they were working on two fire engines - that made me feel good. I doubt Fire Departments would trust their vehicles to some "fly-by-night" shop.

Ivan told me the axle WAS actually "skewed", but not the way you might think. The LEFT side (the one originally "centered" in the wheel opening) was actually 7/16" further back than the step side (which was already too far back)! He told me this is very common, and the frame is not a good measurement reference. He measured the distance to each axle tip from the hitch ball receiver to finally get it right.

Anyway, I'm including pictures of the new configuration, and the trailer is raised 1 1/2" too.

Now, In the first picture, you can see the tire is CENTERED in the wheel opening and in the second, there's "lots" of room between it an the step frame. Yow! You can possibly also see the increased height of the trailer itself, relative to the wheels (1 1/2"). There's really room all around now and it means I can mount larger, Load range C tires on these rims that will safely carry a heavier load!

Finally, the left side. Here, the tire is clearly "forward" in the wheel opening, about like it was "back" in the step side opening before. I've drawn some lines to show how to correct this with a new piece of sheet metal if I get so I can't stand the look - but so far, it doesn't bother me.

There was one small issue: The lift mechanism adjustment bolts had to be cut down to keep them from hitting the left tire in its new position if the tire is forced up into the wheel well. I really didn't see this as a problem though. The cables HAVE needed adjustment (due to stretching) and that always moved the bolts OUT. So, unless I replaced the cables, and needed new adjustment capability, it would not be a factor. (I'd just put new bolts in if I did that.)

The hitch weight with the trailer in its "empty 3520# state" is now 370#! Almost exactly what I had calculated it would be (10.5% of the total weight). So, If I add water to bring the total weight to 3820#, the hitch weight should be 540# - about 14% of the total weight and safe for my 600# hitch..

I still have to respect the 3500# axle limit of course, but if I subtract the hitch weight and the weight of the tires, there's a bit of leeway.

Whew! Looks like I'll keep this trailer a bit longer!

- Jack

Attached Images

	Step Side1.jpg (98.1 KB, 74 views)
	Step Side2.jpg (91.2 KB, 71 views)
	Left Side.jpg (97.4 KB, 78 views)

That might work, if there's enough overlap. I'm not sure there will be. (And, for what it's worth, the opening will have to be moved "forward", but the concept is the same.)

As I said though, the off center wheel does not really bother me much. After all, I lived with the right side being off center for three years!

- Jack

Good deal Jack , looks like you found somebody that knew what they were doing to move the axle.Happy to see you ready to hit the road . Enjoy.

__________________
Tom
2003 Hi-Lo 17T
2013 Avalanche Black Diamond

Id think if you dont have anything hanging below where the fender stops where you have it drawn, put a lot of tape on the side that stays , mark it out and cut that badboy with a jigsaw, then get that trim stuff and re do that welting that is on the edge of the opening.

I used to build Eldorado Motorhomes and Busses, years ago. I used to put that stuff on lots of things I built for campers and busses. {Funny, right now I cant think of what it is called and what they called it at the factory} I was just a kid then, and of course that RV business has long since closed.

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From Kansas: 29ft '95 5th, converted to toybox in rear, by Hilo. Pics soon, Some Here.

I don't think you should overload your trailer. When loading your trailer, make sure everything has a place and is easy to get at when needed. Remember that a properly balanced trailer can give you safety and good driving in any road.

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Online

I know this is a day late and a dollar short, but I was reading y'alls post.
My 17' is a 1997 and has dual axles... The newer models seem have a single axle - so you must be right that you are working very close to the capacity of the undercarriage; as the same amount of trailer is now being carried on half the number of axles. --j

That's interesting information, bongo. I DO wish the smaller trailers had dual axles now. If nothing else, it makes changing a tire easier, since you can just pull the good one up on a ramp and let the other one hang. And, those "expandable" chocks that go between tandem wheels are great (if you have tandem axles).

I also think having a blowout/flat might result in less damage with a tandem axle assuming you recognized it right away (and I would, with the tire pressure monitors I use).

- Jack