So people are some kind of special weight I guess, unlike other weight.

Minivans can only handle people weight, physics fact of the day folks.

So I can put 1650 lb of people in, but with 1650lb of anything else the tires explode, good to know.

And, if you're attaching weight to the bumper you're doing it wrong, crazy glue won't hold that hitch there. Those of us who are educated about these things will be using a kind of subframe with a hitch receiver in it, that bolts up under the rear of the vehicle attaching to several hardpoints, probably including the welded in frame rails that unibodies "don't have", but somehow survive as a means of providing suspension mounting and body rigidity. I would agree that you don't want to exceed the hitch loading limits of this device, but they are available up to 500lb or so, full class III ratings, but if you want more you have to go custom.

The reason most sports cars cannot tow well is they all now have fully independent rear coil spring suspension, not leafspring with a beam axle. That's why the Crown Vic lost tow rating in early 2000s went full IRS.


Also not sure what you're telling me, if it's not a minivan it's impossible to misload it? It's only acceptable to blind people with a truck when you're too much of a dumbass to use a weight distributing hitch?

Well anyway, minivans are not tow vehicle folks, can you explain to me why you're rather have either of the first two vehicles mentioned in this thread to take 5 people camping with rather than a minivan? https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...g/1/page/1.cfm

HardlyLurking
you keep bringing up numbers regarding load and braking... as I told you before, when engineers design any product, there are certain items to meet before they start anything.. namely what is the purpose of the product, in this case a minivan vs a truck, just from the start there is a distinction between them, one is people and cargo mover and the other a payload and towing capacity. they spend billions researching, designing and modeling all the requirements each requires. so from the start you design the product based on what it is built for, regardless of braking, horse power etc...
I work as a computer programmer, and before I write a program, I have to know what is the purpose of the application, then I go different rout based on what the purpose is. I also owned an auto repair shop and I have seen thousands of cars, trucks and van up on lifts.. They are not the same from the bottom, it doesn't matter what the engine is, what is the braking stats, any novice can look from under a truck and tell it is made for load carrying and towing, from the ladder frame with cross members and the heavy duty suspension, minivans have a strong subframe in the front and some stiffened unibody in the rear to mount rear suspension, and in the middle section just unibody connecting the 2 parts.
Again the new commercial vans from Ford have lower towing rating than past rwd, and it is not because they have independent suspension, they use a solid beam and leaf springs, but it is a unitbody and fwd.
if you want to tow a large camper with your minivan, go for it, try it and see how it handles and let us know.

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2181 Classic
97 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.2L V8
4x4

HL, read slowly, carefully.

You are correct, weight is weight, it doesn't matter if it is stolen diamonds, hot hooters girls, or your toolbox. The two single most common CARGO items are a driver and gasoline.

But once the TOTAL weight (vehicle and cargo) exceeds your axle/tire ratings then you are living dangerous, and if you survive this (preventable) waiting to happen accident then you are looking at very expensive repairs, and possible litigation/ denial of insurance claims. IMPORTANT NOTE: this is true of ALL vehicles. ALL Vehicles. Once again, ALL VEHICLES.

Without knowing your exact, very specific vehicle, engine, tires, axles, configuration, etc, we don't know any of your weight allowances. Is your quoted 1650 pounds accurate? Beats us. So that leads me to generalize about minivans in general.

My use of the term bumper hitch includes either an actual ball on the bumper or a mounted receiver. Over load it and it'll eventually detach. But before that happens you will already have compromised the front axle balance required to steer the vehicle. Plus you'll be blinding oncoming traffic with your headlights. And, once again, this is true of all vehicles. All vehicles.

Minivans specifically set up for towing often come with a receiver with a rating of only 350 pounds. Why? Because of the previous mentioned weight restrictions. This may not be so of all vans, but many of them. Again, we don't know what equipment you have, nor if it's from the factory or Bubbas' Bait, Tackle, and Hitch Shop.

Then you again go on to rambling off topic. Yes there are other dummies mis-loading many different vehicles; they too are wrong. So lets just stick to your van and its capabilities.

Vans have their purpose, to comfortable carry people (and in a pinch) a very small, lightly loaded trailer. More than that you should look for a better tow vehicle. The total load determines if you'll require a half ton, three quarter ton, full ton, or even more. Not wishful thinking, Cd or rollover data.

And once again, the engine power to drag a load down the road doesn't account for the weights and balances needed. This too is true of all vehicles.

__________________
2014 Ford F250 6.7 PS
formerly a HiLo TD2401
now an 08 Jayco Eagle

Technically a minivan is a truck according to federal classification. It was designed to carry heavy loads and thus by extension tow loads. Not F250 heavy loads but we are talking mid size Hi-Los not 30' 5th wheels. The factory rates the new Cherokee higher which leads me to believe they are sandbagging the caravan a bit so this sub $20k utility van doesn't steal sales on the $40k suvs. I can put 500#+ of weight behind the rear seats, behind the axle, and the back doesn't move far, certainly not blinding other drivers. Even so sticking to the 3600# rating let's you tow many Hi-los.
PS I just saw the spec for max tongue weight on the caravan is 540# so there you go.

It seems to be that we are over complicating this whole thing. All you need to do is be able to answer no to each of the following questions:

1- Does the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) (including trailer tongue weight) exceed the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)?

2- Does the Gross Combination Weight (GCW) exceed the Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR)?

3- Do either of the axle weights exceed the Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR)?

4- Does the tongue weight exceed the maximum tongue weight?

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Raul

2408T
2010 Nissan Frontier, 4x4, Crew Cab

Technically the GVCW is just a recommendation by the manufacturer. The only legal weight ratings are those of the axles and the tires. Meaning those are the only things laws are written about and checked by the DOT. Many, many commercial trucks are registered well over what the GCVW is listed by the manufacturer. Actually I can't find the gcvw listed anywhere for my 2011 Town and Country. the GVWR is 6050 and the rear GAWR is 3100.

I just also noticed on the Ram site they list the cargo grand caravan at 4350# towing and GCVW at 8750 which seams more reasonable. Granted it has 150-200 less pounds of curb weight but they list both the cargo and passenger models as having the same 1800# payload. The unibody, brakes, suspension, cooling, motor, transmission, tires, etc. are all identical.

I wouldn't hesitate to haul a 3600# trailer with a current generation Grand Caravan. That said we have a Hemi Aspen which is much more comfortable and rated to 8000# of trailer we will be using for our 21' Tow-lite.

The Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) has nothing to do with axle and tire ratings. It is there to protect the drivetrain of the tow vehicle. While it may only be a recommendation it is prudent to heed it.

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Raul

2408T
2010 Nissan Frontier, 4x4, Crew Cab

In my opinion, a minivan is not designed to tow a trailer, other than a small utility trailer or a pop-up tent trailer. It is what it is, don't make it something it is not. A person I know tried towing his 18 -22' Towlite with his Chevy minivan. (Yes I know the post is about the Caravan minivan). The first year he had to have his transmission rebuilt and the alternator replaced. Toward the end of the second year of towing, he had the transmission replaced and the alternator replaced again plus some engine work. On paper, the minivan would pull the rv trailer. In real life, it would not. Moral of this story is "don't try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" (old southern saying).

Bob

__________________
2014 FR Heritage Glen 282RK
2013 F250 HD 6.7L Diesel
Formerly Owned: 1995 22D Fun Chaser & 2901L Classic

I know people with all those problems with full size Chevy pickups that never tow or haul with them, now apply that to a Chevy van that never was popular, I wonder why? Maybe they weren't all that reliable in the first place.
So I show all the facts of why it's perfectly acceptable to tow 3600 pounds (or more with the CV) with 540 pounds on the hitch and apparently a Chrysler engineer comes on and says it was never designed to tow that much. Facts are facts, it is designed to tow that much and more. I don't get people's aversion to minivans. They are more sport (judging handling and braking) and utility (by capibility) then an SUV and oh, they cost less and get better gas mileage.

Hersbird,
Technically you are saying you know more than a Chrysler engineer ?
when we had our Nissan Quest minivan, we loved using it for what it was intended for, seating 7 people and comfortably going on vacations, but we never thought of using it to tow anything with it.
why do you think big semi trailer trucks are built and designed the way they are ? for towing ..period !!! you will never see a semi truck in your lifetime with a unibody and front wheel drive.

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2181 Classic
97 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.2L V8
4x4

HB, if you want to convince us then ...

once you get your Caravan loaded with people, cargo, fuel and a loaded trailer, go by a weight station and get your "actual" weights. Note: don't cheat yourself, make sure it's loaded the way you will typically tow it.

Then find YOUR sticker, posted on YOUR vehicle, the one that says what YOUR allowable weights are. Do not rely on internet specs, your vehicle will have this info posted on it. And do triple check your vehicle hitch rating: while I admit I don't know for a fact, I do seriously doubt that its designed to support 540 pounds. Then post ALL that info here.

And note, I'm not dinging minivans, my wife owns her second one (both Honda Odysseys). Wonderful buggy when used as intended.

__________________
2014 Ford F250 6.7 PS
formerly a HiLo TD2401
now an 08 Jayco Eagle

From the web:

Different forum, different trailers, different tow vehicles; real world numbers once again showing where manufactures are greatly exaggerating tow capabilities (Ram 1500, Silverado 1500, Tundra).

Of course you can/will do what you want, I only ask that you stop encouraging others towards this risky behavior. Doing so not only endangers you and your loved ones but the general public that shares the highways.

Tow Vehicle and Payload Capacity - Jayco RV Owners Forum

__________________
2014 Ford F250 6.7 PS
formerly a HiLo TD2401
now an 08 Jayco Eagle

I'm not saying I know more then a Chrysler engineer, all the numbers I listed are right off my personal door sticker and off the Dodge webpage. I personally think it's risky to drive an old Ford F250 around when not towing. Maybe not to the occupants so much but the others on the road with their poor handling and braking with large mass. It would be ideal if we all could have 4 different cars for each specific use we need.

So you are basically an anti truck and suv person, you should have said this from the start, nothing wrong with being friend of the environment, I also like the environment, so are all the people who like and enjoy camping, you have total right to drive what is good for you, however, you should not prevent others from driving what they love to drive and what is their choice also.
on the other hand not everyone can afford fuel efficient new vehicle cost 40k and more. some of us can only afford older trucks, and we still like to go camping with them.

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2181 Classic
97 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.2L V8
4x4

Wrong, I love trucks and SUV and hate anyone trying to tell anyone else what they should drive. I don't care if you have jacked up diesel on 36's chipped blowing black coal if that's what you want (I used to drive a 2500 Duramax 4x4 crew can long bed). I'm just pointing out the hole in the argument that towing with a Grand Caravan isn't the safest most effective tow vehicle possible. While it's not the perfect choice, it's a safe and effective towing within limits just like anything. Just like a F250 is not the perfect choice for daily driving but is also safe and effective within its limits.

Don't you think this horse has been beaten enough?

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My Great Wife Joyce
2018 Jayco Jay Flight 21QB
Formerly owned 1705T and 2310H
2012 F150 4X4 SuperCrew EcoBoost w/Leer Cap
Reese WD Strait-Line Hitch
Amateur Radio K3EXU

I agree, Rich. End of discussion!

Bob

__________________
2014 FR Heritage Glen 282RK
2013 F250 HD 6.7L Diesel
Formerly Owned: 1995 22D Fun Chaser & 2901L Classic