Safety Travel Issue

This message is primarily directed to all active duty, reserve, law enforcement officers, and retired military and retired law enforcement personnel (LEO) who travel with their RVs and camp across the USA. DH and I have visited a number of campgrounds over the years, and there will most always be a number of LEOs and military personnel, some retired, camping in those campgrounds. These people are drawn to each other like flies for socialization and great conversation. We even had LEOs from Vienna, Austria camping next to us on Cedar Island, FL. Now, this message is regarding safety issues, NOT politics. A few days ago, I asked DH to remove USAF insignia from our tow vehicle (particularly the retired AF vanity plate on the front of the truck). The conversation got a little heated because he is proud of his service to his country, as are a number of retirees I know of on this forum. Due to the ambush attacks of three soldiers (two in uniform in their car) in Canada and two LEOs in the USA (New York City) and the heightened alert at a large number of federal buildings and bases, I asked him to remove the military insignia. His argument is that he could handle the situation if need be and has been trained to do so. My argument is that we are not on a level playing field here when an isolated attacker hides in the population and ambushes military personnel and LEOs. Additionally, I added that he is more help in assisting military and LEOs under attack (who are required to be in uniform) when he does not exude "military" in the population while RV traveling. Am I paranoid here about safety?

Dee

Sounds like you have a legitimate argument there Dee. When our soldiers are fighting abroad, they pretty much know who their enemies are. There's not much point in making yourself a target in a place that you aren't at war and have no idea who the enemy could be. My father is a proud Vietnam vet and also displays his service proudly so I understand the pride factor involved. The people who wish to do us harm are angry with our government, and not completely without reason. Our government officials are too hard to get to so they target the next best thing which are our military personnel and veterans. If our government would keep our troops for what they are for, defending our borders, and not world police force, we wouldn't have a lot of these issues.

Hi Dee - as a retired Air Force pilot who flew combat in Vietnam, I think I know exactly what you are talking about. I know when I got back to the States, it was not smart to venture off base in uniform, due to the anti-military feeling at the time.

I've kind of retained that sense and have not "worn" my AF identity in public since then. I'm happy to be with former and current members of the military but I don't advertise the fact that I am part of that group. And yes, I feel privileged to have served, and I realize that most of my fellow Americans are appreciative of our efforts. And, as I sense from your post, I share with you a feeling of kinship with LEOs, Firemen, and other emergency responders.

But, I don't really see a value in making myself a target for the few misguided nuts out there.

I don't think you are being paranoid at all.

- Jack

Once a Marine, always a Marine. On that note, I will simply say that I could never under any circumstances take ANY US or military affiliation symbols from the rear of any of our vehicles. My wife and I both served our country as Marines and nobody for any reason will ever get us to tuck our tails and hide. Is that the difference in the Marine Corps and the Air Force.....I can assure you it is NOT! I have many, many friends who served in the Air Force and they would all be appalled at your attitude AND your actions.

I hear you and understand your valid arguments, but we can't just stick our heads in the sand and hope they'll go away.

In my biased opinion I think sane (trained) people should be arming themselves. That will not stop them but the damage they inflict can be lessened. As New Hampshire says, Live Free, or Die.

USA, RET

Hi Jim and Wrascal - thanks to both of you and your Wife, Jim for the sacrifices you've endured. I honestly think I can say I appreciate what you have had to give up and the rewards you've gained from your experiences. I know I never felt more alive than when my life was on the line, and I'm sure you feel the same.

I will NEVER fault anyone for proudly advertising the fact that they served (and continue to serve) our great Nation. And, I am not sticking my head in the sand by not choosing to do the same. If you were to come to my home, you would find many mementos of my time in the Service. And, you would find I have quite a number of firearms, all in working order. But, I've had enough of killing, and would not do so again unless forced to. I've never felt compelled to move about armed, even though the State of Arizona places no restrictions on my doing so.

I simply choose to live "diplomatically". I see no reason to be confrontational toward anyone with my beliefs, whether they happen to be political, religious, philosophical or whatever other class you might come up with. One of the reasons I joined the Military, is because I firmly believe in the right of freedom of expression, as guaranteed by the Constitution we were sworn to protect and defend.

And, I find I learn more by finding friendships and having discussions with all classes of people, in all professions. To me, life is too short to restrict that experience.

- Jack

As usual , Jack, I find your responses to be articulate, measured, and well thought out. I know many in law enforcement and many others who are ex military. I doubt any of them would find your response " appalling". At any rate, in view of the fact that your response was bound to raise a hackle or two- I applaud your integrity for expressing your view, regardless. As well, this group has always tended to keep things under control and measured and I hope that continues.

Rick

I still love coming to this website even after the sale of our Hi Lo. And it is just because of threads like this that make that so. I doubt any of our conversation will be changing the minds of Dee, Misfit or Jack. By the same token Wrascal and Rick's opinions will probably remain the same. I simply couldn't sit idly by and let Dee's comment go without further discussion. And it has been enlightening, enjoyable and of course lively. Many thanks also to those of you who served and I might also mention the patience and fidelity of those who waited at home. Semper fi, my friends

And I better say this before I am chastised by one of you flag-etiquette-knowing members. Yes, I do realize that I have the flag draped exactly backwards. It has hung that way for six years at least and about a year ago a middle school teacher from Orange Beach, Alabama took me to task over my flag. We had a good laugh and I promised her I would change it. Sorry, but it hasn't been done yet.

Thank you Rick - I was somewhat surprised by the negative posts, but, on rereading everything I can see how they could feel that way. And, I value their opinion.

I WILL say that my active duty and retired friends don't seem to have any hangups at all with my approach to life. Additionally, my Stepson is a Navy pilot, with the rank of Captain. He and I have a very good and mutually respectful relationship.

To get back to what started all of this though, I felt Dee had a valid concern and wanted to give her my support. There ARE nuts out there, who don't need a real reason to cause mischief. They have all the advantages - they get to choose the place and time, they operate with surprise on their side, they often create intense panic and confusion if there are crowds. If many people were armed, I believe there would be great difficulty separating the good guys from the bad, leading to a lot of "blue on blue" incidents.

- Jack

As a former Army nurse, 1969-1975. I understand the thoughts of all posters.

You will know who served and who didn't when the time comes for action.
Some citizens run from confrontation and chaos, others run to it.

No, head in the sand here. I will stand by your side when and if the need arises.

Just another American

renoites said:

As a former Army nurse, 1969-1975. I understand the thoughts of all posters.

You will know who served and who didn't when the time comes for action.
Some citizens run from confrontation and chaos, others run to it.

No, head in the sand here. I will stand by your side when and if the need arises.

Just another American

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Nicely stated. I'd make one small change: "Some citizens run from confrontation and chaos, others deal with it."

I suspect you meant it that way, and I think many of us have the fortitude to stand with you.

- Jack

This is indeed an interesting thread.

I think the great thing about our country is that we are free to display or not display our affiliations.

I for one, do not display them. It has nothing to do with perceived danger, shame, etc. It's just my nature. For example, the first thing I've always done to cars is remove the dealer license plate holder. My cars, house, clothing, etc, have never had decals, badges, etc. When I was an avid dirt bike rider, I used to go through great pains to find riding gear that wasn't emblazoned with manufacturers' names. I just like things plain.

I proudly served in the USAF and have many military and ex-military friends from all branches of the service. In addition, I associate with many current and retired LEOs through my involvement in shooting sports. I have had conversations with many of my friends on the topic that Dee brought up. While the opinions have been varied (just like in this forum) I do not think that any of them would hesitate to come to the aid of another if the need arises.

Incidentally, my job often takes me to some interesting parts of the world. Some of these areas can be somewhat dangerous. I definitely try to keep a low profile and blend in in these places.

If you saw the chaos from the Boston bombing a couple of years ago you will know what I meant.
Most ran from the scene, others ran too the scene. That is a difference in attitude and personality. But mostly in training and personal responsibility for helping others.

We all CAN rise to the occasion. Most just don't know how or have never been affected by a traumatic event.

Such a civil bunch

artie shaw very interesting - Bing Videos

renoites said:

If you saw the chaos from the Boston bombing a couple of years ago you will know what I meant.
Most ran from the scene, others ran too the scene. That is a difference in attitude and personality. But mostly in training and personal responsibility for helping others.

We all CAN rise to the occasion. Most just don't know how or have never been affected by a traumatic event.

Click to expand...

I know what you mean but in the case of the Boston bombing, there was a second bomb 12 seconds after the first which I believe injured some of those running towards the scene . . . just saying . . .

Dee, I don't think you are paranoid. You bring up a legitimate safety concern. I think folks on both sides of the argument bring up good points. There is no right or wrong here- just a difference of opinion. It's up to each individual and family to determine what's best for them concerning their personal safety.

As for me, while I am retired Navy, I take a similar stance to Raul and Jack. I am proud of my service but don't typically advertise it, although I do have a "Support Our Troops" magnet on the bumper of the Hi-Lo. Heck, I don't even own a gun but got nothing against those that do- it's one of our liberties! Ain't America great!!!

And then we have the unarmed civilians who wrestled the shooter to the ground preventing him from reloading with a high-capacity clip at the Gabby Giffords shooting.

I think, based on what I've seen in almost 74 years, that the majority of Americans will act heroically in certain situations, especially if just one person starts the retaliation, others will follow.

What is hard to stomach is that people will often not get involved in a one-on-one fight, even if it's an uneven match with a man against a woman.

- Jack

Jack, concerning the "one-on-one fight," there was a program on television; I think it was titled "What Would You Do?" It was a set up with two actors (a man and a woman) in a park having an extremely heated domestic argument so that everyone passing them could observe and hear them. The test was to determine how many and who would step in to stop the fight before it came to blows. Just as you said, many just passed the couple staring at them. I was surprised at who did stop and so was the producer of the show. The ones who were courageous enough to stop and bring an end to it were older citizens perceived to be in their 60s and 70s. In fact, one citizen took the woman's arm and instructed the woman to come home with her. After the jig was up, these older citizens were a little embarrassed but with laughter at the set up.

As someone has previously said, there is no right or wrong way to handle the situation that has been discussed in the previous two pages. But everyone probably would agree that this is a fairly unique situation for us in the U.S. By unique, I mean with the advent of computers and the worldwide web, people with a cause can easily cross our borders (without physically setting foot across our borders) and spout their propaganda to Americans who (shall we say, as an understatement) have a severe lack of normalcy in their lives. Also unique is that each of these incidents was preceded by planning. In the incident of the attack with a hatchet of the Queens, NY police officers, this guy had been stalking and observing the officers' comings and goings for four days before the incident. It was not simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think I have beat this horse to death, so I will stop here. It is at least therapeutic to bring this subject up and discuss it. As the sarge on the old television show "Hill Street Blues" use to tell his cops in the morning meeting before they left to walk their beat, "Let's be careful out there."

Dee

Dee, I listened to part of a presentation on NPR regarding the phenomena of how people can ignore those in need. And, how once one person steps in, others will follow.

I don't know if we HAVE beaten this to death. I suspect by discussing it more openly, we can program ourselves to react in the way we'd like to think we should if the need ever comes up.

- Jack

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