Help-can"t drain tank - Hi-Lo camper travel trailer forum

hilltool · 05-15-2012, 09:36 PM

I filled up my fresh water tank with some clorox solution, per instructions, to sanitize and then went to drain the tank. Opened the valve and -nothing. Well- a couple of drips- but it is not draining. Anything obvious I may be missing? Otherwise- I will have to take off the whole valve assembly with a full tank above my head.

Thanks

Rick

RichR · 05-15-2012, 10:11 PM

Sounds like some sort of blockage. Do you have a way to shoot some air into the line and force back what may be in there.

hilltool · 05-15-2012, 10:44 PM

Well- I could get to compressor if need be. i just searched and saw a post where someone said the drain valve was inside??? There is an external tube with a cock on it UNDER my tank and I just assumed that was it. Am I wrong??

hilltool · 05-15-2012, 11:10 PM

Well- sort of fixed it. Pulled the valve off- a dumb thing to do at 10

o at night...but I didn't want to lye awake all night thinking about it. It had a bunch of gunk in it, the valve assembly, ----which is sort of disconcerting because I wonder where that crap came from....makes me wonder if the previous owner used the tank much. It is merrily draining as i write and I will go to bed. Tomorrow I will flush it with the hose-then try to refit the valve assembly- then re sanitize it. Huh!

rick

RichR · 05-15-2012, 11:17 PM

The drain should be outside on the curb side. The drain inside may be for draining the plumbing system, actually there should be one for cold and one for hot. It's good to hear you found the problem.

PopRichie77 · 05-16-2012, 03:41 AM

Be careful with advice on how to drain. The drain is not in the same place on all years. Any advice you use should come from someone with the same make and model. My 95 is on the inside under the couch, hard to reach, my 2209 is on the outside, curb side at the front, small white pit cock. Anyway sounds like you got it drained.

RichR · 05-16-2012, 07:52 AM

A word on the fresh water tank drain. Don't allow the valve to stay open after draining. Little critters like to crawl on there and take up residence. That could be a part of the clogging problem.

sting32 · 05-16-2012, 01:51 PM

Just thought I might mention, after your story... you might already have thought if this, but in case...

Your hot water tank MIGHT need cleaning/flushing too probably, and right now I bet it is (hopefully) being bypassed, due to previous owner doing winterizing? Find out, and pull the plug on the bottom of the HWHeaters tank from that outside access panel. the bypassing valves (if it was setup to do so) will be inside the camper.

edit, I thought I might mention:
---Um be sure you have let off ALL THE PRESSURE the water pump has in the lines, as this was an instant bath when I didnt follow my afformentioned advice, lol... whoooosh, and I was soaked with water better than a garden hose, lol.---

BTW I like to use 1tspoon of baking soda, into fresh tanks when load up water, & go camping. This is of course after I flush tanks and lines each time I get my camper out of storage... I am going to buy then make a plastic pipe plug, that will fit into the HWH's drain plug hole, that will allow it to breath, yet stop insects from getting in, with very small drill bit, or screen, to keep HWH from getting ucky, as Mine sits idle weeks at a time in hot weather up here in Kansas summers...

RichR · 05-16-2012, 09:20 PM

You could have mold, algae, and bacteria in the tank which is not good. A good dose of plain unscented bleach, at least a 1/3 cup for the 30 gallon tank is good for normal sanitizing, fill the tank, pump some water through the lines and bypass the water heater if you have that provision. You should be able to smell the chlorine in the water when you turn on a faucet. Bleach is not good for RV water heaters. Let the water stand at least a few hours or overnight, then drain and flush, and maybe fill the tank again and drain to get the chlorine out of the tank. I know you said you did that but if there is mold in there, which can make you very sick, a good bleach job is vital.

hilltool · 05-16-2012, 09:58 PM

Good suggestions one and all-

I think Rich hit the first pitch with insect suggestion. When I went to fill the tank initially the drain cock was open and I assume it had been that way since winterization. I'm not 100% certain but I believe the "gunk" was on down side of the valve when I rinsed it out, which points to somebody climbing up there and attempting to build a home. At any rate- that was all part of the sanitation phase but I re-did that when I got home today after reinstalling the drain valve and it is draining as I write. Takes awhile to drain that thirty gallons, doesn' it.

The guy who owned it had the dealer service it every year and they (dealers) were one of the bigger dealers in the country and seem to know their stuff and are known locally as being pretty reliable. Previous owner owned a local chevy dealership and kept it inside when he wasn't using it so everything I have found, so far, has been up to snuff. Except , of course, for this. My guess is he didn't use the tank much, however, as I think he was pretty much an electrical and water site kind of guy who just went out a couple of times a year.

We do our first little shakedown trip this weekend so I will know more after that.

As usual- thanks for the advice and encouragement.

Rick

JackandJanet · 05-17-2012, 12:51 AM

Your point about not allowing bleach into the hot water tank is an interesting one, Rich. Where did you hear/read that? There's nothing in my owner's manual about this as far as I know.

And, for anyone who didn't know this, on my trailer at least, the hot water tank is the first thing that fills when I put water into the holding tanks, which makes sense because you would not want the heat on with the tank empty. It, of course, is the last thing to drain for the same reason.

The first time I disinfected the tanks, I didn't follow the rules and put the bleach in first, before adding any water. (You're supposed to fill the tanks to the 1/3 point before adding bleach.) Well, all the bleach ended up in the hot water tank (and it was hard to get the chlorine taste/smell out of it).

In my trailer the hot water heater is very easy to bypass, just move two valves near the pump to the "winterizing" position.

- Jack

RichR · 05-17-2012, 08:08 AM

Jack,
I have read that several different times on the RV.net Forum. I used to pump the chlorinated water through the WH after the fresh water tank was filled, but now I use the bypass when doing it. I don't know if the water that is diluted that much is of any harm, but why take the chance.

retiredcamper47 · 05-17-2012, 11:45 AM

I by-pass my hot water tank when I sanitize my water system. I do flush out the tank with water from a hose to remove any mineral deposits or whatever from it. I did read in Trailer Life's RV & Maintenance Manual to use white vinegar in your hot water tank to remove foul odors in your tank. They said to drain your tank and remove the pressure relief valve. Replace the drain plug and pour in 3 to 4 gallons of white vinegar thru the pressure relief opening. Replace the pressure relief valve, open the closest hot water faucet, and turn on the water pump so the tank fills. Turn on the water heater and cycle until the flame shuts down. Close the water supply. Remove the drain plug and drain the tank (be careful as the water is very hot). Replace the drain plug and refill the tank. Repeat as necessary. This should be done at least twice a year to maintain a fresh smelling tank. I would presume that if you camp on a regular basis, rather than once or twice a season, this would not have to be done, as the tank would be constantly flushed. No where have I seen it written to use chlorine (clorox) in your tank to flush it. The lining of the hot water tank is far different than the inside of the pex water lines. I've never let the bleach water into my tank for sanitizing. But that is my opinion.

Bob

RCREYES · 05-17-2012, 11:54 AM

How to Clean an RV Water Heater | eHow.com

http://www.ehow.com/how_7771_clean-rvs-water.html

JackandJanet · 05-17-2012, 12:32 PM

So, it seems there is some disagreement on use of bleach. I wonder if there are any posts on what could be damaged with it? I'll look.

Edit: I searched using the string "bleach RV hot water tank" and really came up empty. It seems like everyone uses bleach in the hot water systems. One post stated the tank was made of aluminum, which would be damaged by any alkaline substance, but I think bleach is mildly acidic. Am I confused? Yes.

- Jack

RichR · 05-17-2012, 02:39 PM

I actually see no need in putting chlorinated water through the WH, it gets sufficiently hot enough to kill most living things anyway. I think it is the strength of the solution that could be harmful to the WH and other plumbing components. That is why you want to dilute the bleach into a gallon of water before pouring it into the tank and then filling the tank and pumping it through the system.

RCREYES · 05-17-2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

So, it seems there is some disagreement on use of bleach. I wonder if there are any posts on what could be damaged with it? I'll look.

Edit: I searched using the string "bleach RV hot water tank" and really came up empty. It seems like everyone uses bleach in the hot water systems. One post stated the tank was made of aluminum, which would be damaged by any alkaline substance, but I think bleach is mildly acidic. Am I confused? Yes.

- Jack

Reaction of aluminum with chlorine - YouTube

JackandJanet · 05-17-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCREYES

Reaction of aluminum with chlorine - YouTube

Good video, but the aluminum, if it's in the tank, is not "heated", like this. And, the very low level of chlorine in diluted bleach is nothing like what appeared to be nearly pure chlorine in that flask.

Nevertheless, I'll grant that chlorine can be damaging to aluminum.

Still, I didn't find any "warnings" about using a bleach solution in the hot water tank during my internet search. Instead, it seems to be the accepted method of disinfecting the tank, as well as the rest of the system.

But Rich, I agree with you about the heat of the hot water being good enough to kill most organisms too. And, we don't use hot water for cooking or drinking. We use cold water for those purposes.

- Jack

hilltool · 05-17-2012, 10:25 PM

last night when filling to flush (the hw heater was NOT bypassed through two sanitizing procedures) I over filled for maybe five minutes as I was doing something else and water was coming out fill spout pretty forcefully.
anyway- I drained tank. Came out tonight to put water in tank and very quickly it showed 2/3. So I drained it again and even empty it was showing 1/3. Messed with lowering and raising front and finally got it to blink to empty- though it did not want to. So I TIMED filling a two gallon pail and it took 21 secs. Put the hose in the fill spout again without changing rate of flow and let it fill for two minutes. Once again it showed 2/3 full and it was flirting with FULL with a blink or two. Now , there shouldn't be more than 12 gallons in there, right? So I am assuming I busted the sensor, maybe? Supposedly that is a 30 gal tank.

Anyone ever replace one? A sensor?

Something I am missing?

Also- brochure says the HOLDING tanks are 47 gal but I can't tell if that is total or each. She is a 22 2001 TL.

Tomorrow is shakedown camp ( first time out of driveway) about 1.5 hours away with a site with no hook-ups. Did not want to be taking a bunch of water in tanks with weight issue ----though 12 gallons won't be worth much. Not sure what re-fill possibilities will be when I get there. Hopefully it will be do-able.

Thoughts? Chastising? Suggestion?

Rick

JackandJanet · 05-17-2012, 11:16 PM

Your drain may not be at the lowest point in the tank, especially if the trailer is not level. If you really want to empty the fresh water, use the pump until it runs dry, but don't keep pumping after that since the water helps to cool the pump.

The sensors are pretty crude things. I wouldn't really trust the readings on the gauges at all. There are replacement systems that are supposed to be VERY accurate, but they are expensive (a bit over $200 as I recall).

When camping, I find the grey water gauge will go to the 2/3 mark very quickly, but will drop back to 1/3 if left to sit overnight. Similar things happen with the black water tank. My fresh water drops to 2/3 quickly, but then takes quite a while to hit 1/3.

When a tank is empty, the 1/3 full light shows, which means the gauge is not much help in that regard.

My grey water tank is 30 gals and the black water tank is 17 gals, so that makes 47 total. I suspect yours is the same.

I know from experience we can go for about 3 days on one fresh water fill up. And, I have 2 - 5 gal water carriers and an electric pump that runs off the battery to refill if needed. But water is 8.3 #/gal, so 36 gals of fresh water (the tank and the heater combined) weighs just under 300# when full. If the 1.5 hour drive is an easy one, I'd fill the tanks before starting out.

- Jack