Battery " not there"

Need some good advice. I didn't realize I had this problem since I purchased this unit this summer. I installed a new battery.
For some reason the battery isn't supplying power to anything.
It isn't charging when plugged into shore power. I have to be plugged in to raise and lower the top. I removed the cables and thoroughly cleaned both ends. The ground attaches to the bottom of the lift pump and a metal bar. I wire wheeled that area and used dielectric grease when re installed. I attached the positive cable to the post of the solenoid. Stone cold! This after charging the battery back up. I have plenty of juice at the battery but it's not getting to the coach?
I thought since everything was dead , it had to be a ground.
I have not tried to raise or lower the top ( by battery) since recharging it and cleaning the contacts as mentioned.

Where to look next? Think I am going to rig a separate wire from the battery ground to the frame first, just to eliminate that one.

The two solenoids in the battery compartment have to be working for power to get to the trailer. And, at least one of them has to be good (if my memory hasn't totally failed) for the battery to be charged.

I'm surprised though that you can raise the top on shore power. Most converters can't deliver that much Amperage.

I'm kind of thinking one of the solenoids is bad and that you were raising the top on a low battery plus shore power.

You could test the solenoids for continuity with a multimeter (disconnect the battery first). You can also test for voltage AFTER each solenoid with the battery disconnected. Check the wiring diagrams in the library and see if you can trace how the current should run.

- Jack

There is only one solenoid, a three pole

We may be talking about different things, and I may have gotten confused and in turn, confused you. Sorry, my brain cells are not firing well these days it seems.

When you said solenoid, I was thinking of the Circuit Breakers (CBs) that are in the battery box. I'm sure now you are talking about the solenoid on the pump motor. The solenoid is clearly working if the top goes up.

I REALLY meant to be talking about the CBs! They can fail, and if they fail open, no current will pass. The charging current from the converter goes through at least one of the CBs and battery current goes through one or two of the CBs to get to the trailer. So, if either of them is bad, something is not going to work.

My CBs are wired like this: http://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f51/hi-lo-2306-primary-wiring-116/ (Post #10). Yours may be wired differently, but you should be able to figure out how to test them.

If you have a good ground, the CBs would be the next suspect.

- Jack

Here is what I accomplished today. I put a meter across both terminals of the circuit breakers. Both showed current passing from one post to the other. I take that that to mean that they are working ( when there is an overload current is disrupted for safety). I pulled every blade fuse in the panel and visually inspected each and every one. I unmounted the converter and pulled both blade fuses, physically inspected and put a meter across the blades all ok. I put it on the bench and plugged it in and 14.+ v output showed up on the meter. I am stumped. I'm thinking it's a wire.

One thing that I found odd is that one of the two circuit breakers is mounted outside of the battery box. It is still "under" the aluminum battery cover but with being exposed over the years it isn't giving me confidence.

Any ideas??????

Jack and Janet, could you explain what "fail open" means.

Bravada said:

Jack and Janet, could you explain what "fail open" means.

Click to expand...

Sure. A CB acts to "open" a circuit in case there is a short, which could start a fire. If the CB is open, no current will pass through it. It's effectively just a switch that can be open or closed. It is normally closed, completing the circuit.

Many CBs can be manually opened, and then reset to a closed condition. The ones in your home are like this. I believe there are similar CBs for the AC power in the Converter in your trailer. And, if they are tripped open due to an overload, you can reset them once the condition is corrected.

The ones in the battery box though, are sealed and are not manually reset-able as far as I know. If one of these should FAIL, I think you simply have to replace it. However, it may also be self-resetting if there is an overload that is later corrected. But, YOU have no control over its state.

I'm a bit puzzled on how you tested your CBs. To see if they are closed, you would used the voltage setting of your multimeter and put the positive test lead on the "downstream" pole of the CB (the one opposite to where the battery cable attaches). Then, you'd apply the negative test probe to a good ground (or just the ground terminal of the battery). If you see battery voltage (shore power not connected), the CB is passing current.

You could also use the continuity function across both CB terminals, but you should disconnect all wires from them if you do this, or you might be seeing continuity through the attached wiring.

If your converter is charging the battery (shore power plugged in), you would see 13+ volts across the battery terminals. If you see less than this, charging current is not reaching the battery (and it is probably not electrically connected to the trailer wiring). And, as you posted earlier, this could be caused by a bad ground. You could test the battery grounding using the continuity function of the meter again. Put one test lead on the negative terminal of the battery and the other on some bare metal portion of the trailer frame. If the meter beeps, you have a ground connection.

- Jack

Jack, maybe I just got lucky, but the CBs in my battery compartment DO have a re-set button. When I get a different Hi Lo, I always replace those CBs and carry a spare. If we're talking the same ones. A tiny black button on the side. I read this on the forum years ago and went looking and found that my first Hi Lo didn't have re-settable CBs, went to Auto-Zone and they had them.
Cross your fingers.
Tree

Tree, thanks! I've never looked HARD at the CBs, but I HAVE studied the wiring and found it was a bit different than the primary wiring diagram in my owner's manual showed. I'll have to look for the reset button.

Another thought, for Bravada: you could temporarily bypass the CBs (one or both) for testing purposes by simply attaching a short jumper wire (I'd use 12 gauge min) across both poles of the CB. This takes the CB out of the circuit and of course removes the protection it offers, kind of like the old "penny under the fuse" trick back in the old days.

Anyway, if things suddenly start working when a jumper wire is applied, you've found an open CB that should be reset or replaced. Don't use the trailer continuously with the CB bypassed.

- Jack

There are 3 types of 12v circuit breakers.
Type 1 - Automatic reset
Type 2 - Modified reset - Have to remove the 12v power source from breaker to
reset
Type 3 - Manual reset - Have to push button on the end in to reset

They all look the same physically with the exception of the push button on Type 3.

Bob

Bob, I did not know about the "Modified Reset" type. Thanks for posting this.

Still, though, I bet there is a possibility that a CB can become "inop", and if so, it should fail to the "open" position. If it failed closed, there would be no protection and no warning that anything was amiss.

Amazing what there is to learn in this forum! It's a fantastic resource.

- Jack

Thanks again Bob, I found the same info at an Auto Zone and as said, replaced all those with manual resets, that way I know there is a problem and can correct it before something else happens, like with an automatic reset. Keep a spare! Small cost when needed.
Tree

Up Date! 12v. flying all over!

Traced the wires from the positive side back to the cold side ( after making sure I had a great ground ). I know I was getting juice from the battery to the solenoid. From that post to the #1 circuit breaker the wire looked suspect. Replaced it with 6 ga. wire. Then moved to the " jumper wire " to #2 circuit breaker. It looked trashed, replaced it also.

Next step was checking the voltage with the meter. Ground lead attached to the battery ground then to the end of the first wire I replaced. Meter confirmed good current was present. Then on to the other end of the first wire, same number showed up. Then moved the red lead to other side of the #1 breaker. Same numbers showing up. Then on to the jumper wire to #2 circuit breaker. I had juice there also. It's when I moved the red lead to the other side of that CB that it was cold. Replaced it with a new one and no more drama.
Just looking at a wire now they don't put up any resistance cuz they know that if they don't do their job .... no camping for them.

Now on to other items on the to do list. Like pulling windows and resealing them.

You can do the window resealing

The first window you do will be a little bit scary. You need a helper so you don't drop the window while taking it out. One person on the inside and one on the outside. Have a radio near by and play your favorite tunes as you work. We put the window on saw horses. One person can use go gone on the exterior HiLo and then clean with alcohol. Use a scraper or five in one tool to scrape off the old sealant. Doesn't have to be perfect. Just get off as much as you can. Have a garbage can near by. We replaced all interior screws with SS ones. Have fun. Keep telling yourself that it is better to reseal windows than having to replace soggy walls.

sam said:

Keep telling yourself that it is better to reseal windows than having to replace soggy walls.

Click to expand...

Yes, it most certainly is!