compound winter/government experience - Hi-Lo camper travel trailer forum

Hamster · 12-06-2011, 04:40 PM

Thought I'd share this experience for anyone planning to be similarly situated. We own a 1993 21-ft FunLite.

We hoped to start an est. 6-mo. house remodel on July 1, but the City delayed our permit until Oct and transformed our modest remodeling hopes to a full-on tear-down and rebuild. Our plan to live in our Hi-Lo during this work therefore became more complicated.

First set of complicating factors was that the house water had to be shut off for the demo, and the trailer had to be moved way back on the lot to be out of the way. Our only choice for a water supply was a standard rubber garden hose hooked to a friendly neighbor's hose bibb a hundred feet away, exposed to winter weather.

Second complicating factor: we have no RV power on the site, yet. So for now we are plugged by an over-long extension cord into 110V 20A (the panel is in our garage which is not being rebuilt yet).

First actual problem arrived when we had to move the trailer a few feet out of the way again, but could not get the top down on 20A. I tried everything but it seems there is no fix for that except to wait for 30A power to be run.

Then come November, we had a series of freeze-thaw cycles that made our ersatz water supply intermittent. This is near Puget Sound about an hour south of Vancouver BC, where it doesn't usually freeze very hard. So, we merely drained and bypassed the water heater each time it was forecast to freeze, but left all cold taps adrip. The trailer piping would be frozen (just), but would soon thaw, each morning until we bought ten bales of straw to stack about the margins of the rear half of the trailer. The straw worked well enough to keep the trailer plumbing working on City pressure, that is, when the water supply hose was working. We never filled the on-board tank: too much to drain every time freezing weather is expected.

This morning, after a few days of dry weather with lows in the upper 20s and highs in the mid 30s, the water pressure was low in the morning and then about 7:30 am all the trailer inside lights suddenly went out and the furnace fan stopped, but the receptacles still worked. I checked and the extension cord was carrying power to the trailer, so I read some threads here and decided it was probably a grounding problem. Sure enough, I looked and the main grounding cable was loose: the clamp would slide along the pipe, and the wire came right out (presumably vibration during towing compounded by wet weather and freeze-thaw cycles, had caused this). And also the 20A inline fuse had blown. I cleaned up the pipe and clamp with a wire brush and re-tightened it, then replaced the fuse; and that restored the lights and furnace fan.

In a week or two these sorts of problems may diminish. By then we'll have a permanent water line buried in a 2-foot deep trench, with a keyed faucet below frost line, and running from that a 25-foot heated hose for a potable water connection. (Later, when construction is over, the faucet will be replaced with a sanitary yard hydrant.) The heated hose will plug into a new weatherproof sub-panel, also sporting a 30A RV socket, to stand a few feet away. I would have deployed these conveniences beforehand, and indeed I tried, but the City would not permit them as standalone items - we're zoned single-family detached and they said they could not ensure we would not live in the trailer. However, in the context of a complete tear-down and rebuild the same fixtures apparently are well camouflaged. Go figure.

Should I cross-post this to the Plumbing forum?

Jeff

RichR · 12-06-2011, 06:49 PM

I'm sorry to hear about your adventure, it has been a long rough road for you.

You mentioned that you could not lower the top. To lower it takes very little amperage, in that, the only thing that requires electric is the release valve solenoid. It sounds like you don't have any 12 volt power getting to it. Are the battery and converter both working? Power from either will supply enough 12 volt to lower the top.

sam · 12-07-2011, 12:02 AM

Sorry to hear about your rough survival camping. Hopefully your utilities will get hooked up soon. Thankgoodness for kind neighbors.

robobd · 12-07-2011, 11:14 AM

there is a place called farm & fleet in the midwest and they carry 50 & 100 foot heated water hose that plugs into 110v . you might also try a plain battery charger so you can lower and raise the top. best of luck at your cozy campsite! I hope your remodel plans go better

Hamster · 12-08-2011, 08:23 AM

Rich - I do not know the best way to check the battery and converter. All I know is the battery surface voltage measures 12.6v; the manual override on the solenoid seems to be stuck; the solenoid clicks when the lift switch is pushed; the safety bar release cable seems stuck; and the converter hums constantly. Also, the very last time it worked, it would only lift in increments, a few inches at a time, every half-hour or so. I have not found the safety bar under the trailer - the hay is in the way, the mud was discouraging, and it's usually dark by the time I have time - but I know I'm only being a woos because it's simpler to wait for the power to be upgraded, however unlikely it may be for that to be the cause.

Sam - I probably exaggerate; in any case, it can't be that rough; it's a HiLo. Plus we do have the very great luxury of good neighbors in most directions.

robobd - That's exactly what I bought, but from the local hardware store and only 25 feet @ about $3.50/ft because that's all we will need, when the freeze-proof hose bibb is turned on (it was just plumbed yesterday). I didn't care to pay for 100 feet for this temporary issue. But for heated hoses, they're pretty cool.

RichR · 12-08-2011, 09:38 AM

The safety catch may be stuck just because it is supporting the weight of the top, if the top could be raised slightly it may release. I guess if the lift solenoid is clicking it may pay to check if there is power going from it to the pump motor. With the battery reading 12.6 volt after it sits overnight after being charged would indicate that is ok and the converter is doing its job charging. Why it stops on the way up.....?? Does the motor stop running or does the lift stall like it is in the full up position.

Added note: Check the circuit breaker that goes between the battery and the solenoid.

robobd · 12-08-2011, 02:20 PM

can you use jumper cables and connect your auto or truck to your hi-lo battery? you might need to clean your connections and grounds and I would also check your voltage readings going in the up position, also check to see if your charger is putting out at least 13 volts.

Hamster · 12-09-2011, 12:33 PM

Rich, you asked: "Why it stops on the way up.....?? Does the motor stop running or does the lift stall like it is in the full up position." To clarify: the last time it did lift at all it only lifted incrementally, a few inches at a time before pooping out, and each time it pooped out it just slowed to a crawl and then stopped as though it had been exhausting a weak battery when actually it was on line current. Since then, the top has been fully up and will not lower or lift, and when I try to lift I do not get the normal pump squeal but only a click from the solenoid.

Meanwhile, I've finally got a sunny if frozen day free, so I'll try to check some of those items. However, I do not know which circuit breaker is on the battery-solenoid circuit. The breakers in the hard-to-reach panel under the bed have never tripped. There's fuse box in back (all okay), and two inline fuses in the battery compartment, but I know of no other breakers or fuses.

retiredcamper47 · 12-09-2011, 01:45 PM

The breakers in the panel under the bed are for your 110v system. The lift system is 12v. Check the area around the battery and lift motor for a small rectangular "breaker". Some of them have a tiny reset button on them. Find the breaker and push the button in. Hopefully this helps..............................

Bob

RichR · 12-09-2011, 02:30 PM

The lift runs off the battery not the 12 volt converter. The battery must have a sufficient charge to be able raise the top. The converter can't directly supply enough amperage on its own. I would be suspicious of the condition of the battery. Try jumping it and see if the lift works. You may just have loose or dirty battery connections, or the battery ready for replacement.

Hamster · 12-09-2011, 04:04 PM

Rich, I had to move a stack of 1.25"x20 ft lumber to get my truck back there, but your suggestion to jump the battery worked. Seems the top was not up all the way as I thought, for it rose a fraction before topping out with the usual pump squeal. Now, I'm off to have the battery checked - its connections were clean and tight, but it's of an unknown yet undoubtedly old vintage. I assume that if it's good but merely discharged, then something else will be the next suspect.

RC47 - no such breaker yet found on this 93-21FLL.

RichR · 12-09-2011, 04:27 PM

Hopefully the battery is the culprit, I should have thought of that sooner. Get a deep cycle battery for maximum life. The breaker(s) are usually mounted on the side of the battery/pump compartment and can be either inside or outside depending upon the year the trailer was built. They put me mind of an old metal aspirin container or a miniature sardine can and should have two terminal posts on them. But, if you are getting some power to the pump it probably is not the breaker. The older breakers had reset buttons on them, the newer ones automatically reset after cooling down. I'm not up on older HiLo's but I think they had a fuse inside behind the main power and lift switch. Maybe one of our experts can clarify that.

Hamster · 12-12-2011, 10:52 AM

Two tests, identical results:

5 volts, 0 cranking amps, "replace battery"

That was obvious to robobd and Rich as the probable cause. It should have been obvious to me, too, but no, when it lifted in increments "as though it had been exhausting a weak battery" I instead assumed without thinking that the lift runs on household current and something else was to blame.

[no head-slap emoticon is available here]

Duly humbled, we looked at our situation a little harder. We don't seem to need a battery to live in the trailer in one spot, while plugged into line current. The trailer isn't going anyplace else until at least April, when our house is expected to be finished. Right now it is blocked by construction materials, but surely even in April we will want a break from trailer life and our new house will feel like a vacation. Meanwhile, sure, we might need to move the trailer a few feet to get out of the way of some unforeseen construction process; but this can be done slowly and carefully with the top up, or we could jump it again. Later, when we want the trailer to really travel, seems to be the right time to buy a nice fresh battery. Unless I'm making another rash assumption...

This forum is invaluable. There's no telling how much time and money I would have spent chasing geese, without its help. Many, many thanks to those who replied, and to those whose troubleshooting of the problems of others became useful references for people like me. Merry Christmas to all!

Jeff

RichR · 12-12-2011, 11:14 AM

I'm glad you found the problem. Sometimes we tend to overlook the basic causes.

I love stories with happy endings!!