Yosemite in November - Hi-Lo camper travel trailer forum

NDgent · 11-16-2010, 12:12 PM

I am going to Yosemite NP on Friday November 19th for five days of winter camping. WE will be doing a little snow shoeing and hiking with our two dogs, while the cat stays in the Hi-Lo.

It appears we are heading into the first winter snow and I am hoping you experts can give me some advice as how to stay warm!

We will be at 5000 feet at the Pines Camp Ground and we will NOT have electrical or water hookups, so I am concerned about keeping the fresh water tank and water pipes from freezing.

I have dual 6v golf cart batteries but I DO NOT have a generator. I also have two 30lbs LP tanks that are full.

Besides staying home, what advice do you have to help us survive?

This is the current weather report:

Friday: Mostly cloudy. Chance of snow and slight chance of rain in the afternoon. Windy...colder. Chance of precipitation 50 percent. Highs 41 to 51 at 5000 feet...33 to 43 at 8000 feet. Friday Night: Snow likely and chance of rain. Windy...colder. Chance of precipitation 70 percent. Lows 26 to 36 at 5000 feet... 15 to 25 at 8000 feet.

Saturday: Snow and rain likely. Breezy. Chance of precipitation 70 percent. Highs 33 to 41 at 5000 feet...23 to 33 at 8000 feet. Saturday Night: Snow likely. Windy. Chance of snow 70 percent. Lows 24 to 34 at 5000 feet...13 to 23 at 8000 feet.

Sunday: Snow showers likely. Very windy. Chance of snow 70 percent. Highs 31 to 39 at 5000 feet...21 to 31 at 8000 feet. Sunday Night: Mostly cloudy with a 50 percent chance of snow showers. Very windy. Lows 22 to 32 at 5000 feet...11 to 21 at 8000 feet.

Monday: Mostly cloudy with a 40 percent chance of snow showers. Highs 30 to 38 at 5000 feet...19 to 29 at 8000 feet.

Thanks for the feedback,
John

PopRichie77 · 11-16-2010, 01:01 PM

Don't know if this will help but I just found these on Ebay-- 3 pack RV Freeze Protection Holding tank heaters 12V - eBay (item 180587172686 end time Nov-18-10 13:09:05 PST)
The only problem with heating pads is they will drain a battery in a short time, if you had a generator they would be useable, I admire your daring, hope you make it back to give us a report. If the camp ground has a restroom, I would use it as much as possible, instead of the camper toilet. The fresh water tank is going to be a problem. A bunch of gallon jugs or larger inside the trailer, might be better than water in the tank. Good luck, have fun and snuggle a lot.

NDgent · 11-16-2010, 01:40 PM

The generator is on the wish list, which I plan to purchase before our Yellowstone trip next fall. I believe leaving the base cabinet doors ajar should provide enough warmth to keep the water lines thawed ... I haven't winterized yet. Do you think 5 days of below 32 will solidify the fresh water tank?

Your suggestion of the water bottles makes sense ... yes Yosemite has public showers and rest rooms that we could use they're just not as convenient, and of course the 3 am call to nature is not exciting when one has to run through snow in bath robe and slippers although I did do that in ND as a youth ... we didn't have indoor plumbing back then.

The tank heaters are also on the wish list, but without the generator as you said they will drain the battery quickly and we need it for the furnace fan.

The current plan is to leave the furnace on at 65, take extra blankets, dress warmly, drink plenty of hot chocolate and brandy, and as you said Cuddle a lot!

PopRichie77 · 11-16-2010, 02:49 PM

The exposed drain valves and piping will be the first to freeze, I don't have any suggestions for them, except don't use the black and gray water tanks. The tubing inside the trailer should be ok. The fresh water tank should have some insulation around it and it might make it. If you don't drain the hot water tank, be sure to run it on propane every now and then. We haven't done any winter camping but we have boon docked for up to 2 weeks, using candles at night, but we also have a generator.

Lloyd · 11-16-2010, 06:37 PM

Mighty brave soul you are! Poprichie has some good info. You might put some RV antifreeze in the tanks before anything else and that would gravitate to the control valves. A BIG CONCERN is: Do you have enough battery power for that long a period of time with the furnace running. I'd be looking to borrow a generator from a friend! Candles or battery operated lanterns (LED's require less battery power). Don't use the stove to heat! Make sure your carbon monoxide detector is working. Remove any snow accumulation so your lift cables don't break. Enjoy!

JackandJanet · 11-16-2010, 08:03 PM

Yow! You're not warming up at all, are you? I suspect your fresh water tank would freeze and I like the idea of dumping a couple gallons of antifreeze into the black water tank. I wonder if the "formaldehyde" based anti-stink stuff has anti-freeze properties?

I would use the toilet in the night, myself. The mantra is: "If it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown, flush it down" (I learned that from my New Zealand Wife, Janet.) In other words, DON't flush the thing for the nightly trips and DON'T poop in it! Empty the toilet into the tank in the morning and rinse the bowl with water from a "jug" (which you can probably refill at the campground).

You should need no water in the fresh water tank this way and the only tank to be concerned with is the black water one. Don't use the sink or shower either, obviously.

I DO think you're going to be running low on battery power though. Don't use it at all for lighting. It will be needed to run the heater, which I assume you WILL use. Don't use it for the water pump and you might make it. Turn the refrigerator fan off - it shouldn't be needed either. Turn the furnace off in the daytime - your kitty has a fur coat and should be ok, especially if you provide a cozy "bed".

Let us know how things work out!

- Jack

NDgent · 11-16-2010, 08:29 PM

I've taken everything ventured forth to heart and decided to ask my neighbor Rich, who has every motorized man toy imaginable, if he had a generator, too. I hit pay-dirt ... he lent me his immaculate Coleman 1750. It is not an inverter generator and probable is more than 58 db, beggars cant be choosers ... right!

I'll check my local RV repair center and see if thy have tank heaters, now that I can recharge the batteries, I am brave enough to stick them on ... we will see.

The suggestion of using the RV anti-freeze in the grey and black tanks is excellent ... I will have to do that too! We always carry a Coleman LP lantern and a couple of small tanks ... adds to the romance!

Thanks guys, I'll be posting photos and giving a report next week end.

JMDoering · 11-16-2010, 08:46 PM

Hi John,

All the above replies offer good, common sense advice. Not too much to add other than, with two 30 lb. propane tanks and consevative use, you shouldn't be running out of gas. You may already know this, but if not, I recommend you enter the park with your gas tanks full (car and trailer) because you can't buy any within park boundaries. Oh, we use a couple of LED lanterns when dry camping, and they are terrific! Finally, take extra grub... you could get snowed in for a day or two waiting for the plows. In spite of the Weather Channel, weather in the high Sierra, this time of year, is completely unpredictable.

Finally, if you are planning to enter the park on the east side through Tioga Pass, be advised that its probably closed for the season. Rangers typically close that entry at first snowfall... and that happened last month.

Wish I was going too... you'll have a blast!!!

Jim

NDgent · 11-16-2010, 11:10 PM

I have usually gone to Yosemite from the San Francisco Bay area on CA120 up Priest grade, but with the snow and pulling the Hi-Lo this time I will take the easier route through Maricopa and CA140, which is maintained all year round. It will take us an extra hour, but the grade is less and roads better (we are driving from Placerville on US50 down US99 to CA140). If I had more time and better weather I would take CA49 directly to Moccasin and up Priest grade, it is much shorter.

I have 4WD and chains for the Frontier and as well for the Hi-Lo (for braking) if needed, and yes I have had experience putting the chains on myself, so I think I have that covered.

I plan to use Blue masking tape on the top/bottom seals (we call it the cat walk, because our cat uses it as his pedestrian way). I am re-leaved that I was able to borrow the generator ... as it eliminates concern about running out of battery. We will fill up in Maricopa, about 40 miles outside Yosemite.

sayhonkmon · 11-16-2010, 11:47 PM

I think that I would head South to San Diego.; rent a a movie on Yosemite and have a cool one while watching it under the awning in my lounge chair.

PopRichie77 · 11-17-2010, 06:41 AM

Sounds like you are on your way to having a good winter trip. Glad to hear that you got a generator. Lloyd's suggestion of RV anti freeze in the black and gray tanks to prevent the valves and exterior piping from freezing is a good one. I would put it in before leaving so that the movement of the trailer would get it down to the valves. Your masking tape sounds good, we do something different in cold weather close to freezing, we roll towels up and place them around the top and bottom joint. We have 6 very long beach towels that we use for packing and for sealing the top and bottom in cold weather, along with some reg towels.
As for flushing the toilet, there is a valve on the back of the toilet, we turn it off when we need to conserve water and use the jug and glass for flushing uses a lot less water and doesn't fill the black tank as fast just put a little anti smell stuff in occasionally, couldn't think of what it is called.

JMDoering · 11-17-2010, 08:33 AM

John, you certainly won't be the only camper at Pines with a generator... unless of course, you are the only camper there.

When we have camped there, half the rigs have some kind of generator and it can be noisy...your neighbor's Coleman prolly won't even be noticed.

In early October we departed Yosemite via Mariposa and there was MAJOR road construction in progress, with long stretches of road stripped down to dirt. We talked to a constuction guy who said they expected to be working through November. If that's an issue for you, you may want a status report from park info.

BTW, this late in the season, is camping at Pines on a first come basis, or did you still have to make reservations?

Jim

NDgent · 11-17-2010, 11:03 AM

Thanks Jim,

I did check the road conditions and you are correct there is still some construction on CA140 east of Mariposa, but given the choice between Priest grade, an 8000 ft pass or road delays ... I chose the delays.

Yes, I did have to make reservations ... we are in site 165, if you drop by bring you're own heater!

Thank's for the heads up!

Lloyd · 11-17-2010, 04:24 PM

You've had a lot of concerned RV Partners suggestions and it sound like you're
good to go! Have a great trip!

JMDoering · 11-17-2010, 06:39 PM

John I'd love to drop by... but we're in Florida now and will be into December. True, Florida is no Yosemite, but we're still having fun and seeing great sights and landmarks new to us! Jim

JMDoering · 11-28-2010, 10:15 AM

Hi John,
So how was your late season adventure to Yosemite?

Jim

NDgent · 11-28-2010, 02:35 PM

We made it home without serious incident. The weather and scenery were as expected, cold and beautiful ... snowy evenings and clear days, couldn’t have asked for a better winter experience. Great advice on gassing up, which we did in Mariposa (15 miles down the road in West Portal the gas was $4.56 for premium). The first leg of the trip we got 14.5 mpg with the Nissan Frontier, overall we got about 13 mpg driving 60 mph most of the time. We were at 4000 ft in the Upper Pines camp ground not the 5000 ft I expected so our temps were higher than forecasted. (FYI, Lower and North Pines are closed in winter; Upper Pines is reservable)

Lloyd, thanks for the heads-up on the snow loading I hadn’t thought about that at all! I cut five 2X3 studs to length from my scrap wood pile before leaving and when we set up I put them in between the upper unit and the frame projections it rests upon when in the down position. They weren’t pretty, but they were effective and I can see a future project to fabricate some EMT/pipe screw jacks to have for future winter camping trips.

It got down in the high 20’s every night and up in the high 30’s during the day, which caused the snow in the 75 ft pines to melt when the sun hit them every morning and then the branches dropped clumps of snow, some of which were combined with ice from the previous days melt ... one such ice clump impacted on the bathroom vent and seriously cracked it, leaving a two inch hole. The tent campers in Upper Pines awoke to flattened tents and some moved to Curry Village to the heated tents, others bundled up and lived under their Eazy-Ups and hovered around the fire pits. Brave souls they were!

Mother Nature’s permanent bath vent helped with the condensation problem we were experiencing, but the cold nights still illustrated the Hi-Lo’s ceiling metal framing with lines of dew drops in the morning. All we could do is wipe it up as often as necessary to keep the condensation cleaned up. I don’t know if there is a solution as we had plenty of ventilation with the hole in the ceiling ... maybe gluing Styrofoam sheets to the exterior, err. Just kidding.

Our local RV center discouraged me from adding tank heaters as he felt they would deplete the batteries in one night, and he didn’t have any dual voltage 120/12 volt units in stock anyway. It was his opinion that it would take longer than the expected stay to freeze up the tanks. So we winged it on the tanks, taking bottled water for cooking and only used the 30 gal for dishwashing, bathing and flushing ... you guessed it, we ran out of water on the fourth day. I made a note that we need a 5 gallon potable water can, as refilling the 1 gallon jugs gets to be a drag. Fortunately the heated flush rest rooms were only 100 ft away, and Curry Village has hot showers available for a small fee.

The borrowed generator came in handy to recharge the dual golf cart batteries, which were down below 66% after three days ... we only ran it two times for a total of 2 hours, but it gave us peace of mind and ensured enough juice to drop the top on Wednesday. Chains were necessary to get out of Upper Pines and we kept them on for peace of mind to the Yosemite exit but probably were not needed as the plows had cleared all the snow off the road. We left via CA 140 ... of to my daughters for Thanksgiving dinner on Wednesday morning.

Thank you all for the coaching ... I really appreciate your support!

Lloyd · 11-28-2010, 08:30 PM

John, Good to hear you had a great adventure. Glad you helped those cables support the snow heavy top. I've thought of the same thing if I had that snow load when it was up.. This forum is a great tool and with all the RV experience some of old coots have it gives us a tool to shout out what we have learned enroute (sometimes the hard way). Many more happy trails

Lloyd
2004 27T
2004 Expedition

lowerbp2 · 12-12-2010, 03:51 PM

Was wondering if there was snow on top would the cables not snap if we hand cranked. But now that I think of it it should not make any difference.

Planning on spending 1 month in Raton NM working in a VA CBOC from Jan 10-Feb 20 in a KOA so will have power 24 hr. I am asking them about a heating tape to the water intake.

Other suggestions? for the cold. I am looking thru the notes here. We have a 25 ft 2007 or 8 but need to look up when I get back home.

vannooch · 12-12-2010, 08:48 PM

That looks like a fantastic adventure!
I was curious about the water tanks, but it seems that there is no problem with the water tanks at high 20's and 30's. I would like to get mine out, I've just been swamped. Never owning a trailer before I panic'd and winterized it with the 20 degree nights we has not too long ago. I still may give it a try soon.
Glad to hear ya had a good and safe time, post some more pics if ya have them.