Adding a 3rd curb side outrigger/top support on the curb (door) side - Hi-Lo camper travel trailer forum

oldcarguy · 07-07-2018, 05:59 PM

Our relatively new-to-us 2307C was previously owned by a woman who traveled extensively with it - presumably as a result of the mileage it's accumulated, the curb side of the upper section is sagging a bit at the door opening.

This is causing several secondary issues, including 1) misalignment of the bulb seal when the top is up (resulting in drafts and cold air leakage), 2) misalignment between the "C" shaped sliding block and vertical rail just aft of the door (which causes the block to periodically pop off the rail) and 3) an uneven gap between the upper section of the entry door and the door jamb.

With the top fully raised, a wood block can be placed under the bottom surface of the top just aft of the door and the area raised with a hydraulic jack, which brings the bulb seal into proper contact with the upper sealing rail, properly aligns the sliding block/vertical rail and closes the gap between the upper door and its opening.

To correct the sag, I'm considering adding a 3rd outrigger/top support to be welded into the frame between the door step assembly and the wheel opening to relieve the stress on the door area of the curb side of the top.

My thinking here is that adding an outrigger at the point where the top is sagging should have a similar effect as temporarily lifting that area of the top with a jack, bringing everything back into alignment. With the low point lifted and supported, the weight of the top should cause the sag to correct itself as the front portion of the top gradually settles back down onto the front support.

Interested in anyone's thoughts who's dealt with this issue previously.....

retiredcamper47 · 07-07-2018, 11:51 PM

Might want to add a “knee knocker” or outrigger on both sides of the door opening. This is the weak point on the curb side. A friend of mine had this problem and found out the metal framework above the door had some broken welds causing the sag. I believe he removed paneling on the inside to get to it. Hope this helps.

Bob

oldcarguy · 07-08-2018, 02:35 AM

Hadn't thought about the possibility of broken welds, but that would certainly make sense.

Probably wouldn't be all that much more work to add outriggers on both sides of the door than it would to do just one, either.

Treeclimber · 07-08-2018, 08:31 AM

A couple of us talked about this same subject while at the rally, but also included the tilt-out area as well. Adding the extra outriggers isn't that much of a problem considering the long term benefits.
Somewhere in the past, there were pics of a re-build where the owner, instead of just re-welding the cracked welds over the door area, also welded in "webs" (gussets) in all the exposed corners. Super strong.

sam · 07-08-2018, 10:32 PM

I agree the door and tipout are weak areas. Our frame broke towards the back of the door side. Closest to the bumper. This was on a 1990 25ft. Rear Door classic. DH took the wardrobe apart . Then the wall. He put pipe in pipe and bolted in the new patch. No more sag. This repair has held up since 2012.

marininn · 07-15-2018, 04:45 PM

show pics if you do. I thought about it.
Mine sagged, I fixed it.
Mine rest on the dinette when lowered, so that supports the roof when down.
An outrigger would also and would keep it from sagging when lowered and on bumpy roads, but does nothing for it when raised. Mine was supported on the dinette, but still had the sag, so I suspect the outrigger only fixed half the problem.
You need to reenforce the wall.
I have some post and photos about my work, and there could be others.
The area above the door, and others who have fold outs, is the weak point. not enough wall there to support the weight. You need to strengthen the wall, and this requires pulling the inside wall panel off so you can screw steel or wood into the steel frame to add support and strength to the wall.

oldcarguy · 07-15-2018, 05:57 PM

My guess is that there's more "damage" done with the top down than up - suspect that most of the stress comes when the trailer's being towed and the curb side of the top is flexing around the door opening as the trailer bounces along (certainly an issue here with the crappy condition of much of CA's pavement). That's where the added outrigger(s) should help - with even one added support point right behind the door, the top shouldn't move much.

Unless someone's living in their HiLo more or less full time, I'd guess the top is going to spend about 90% of its time in the lowered position, so I'm not overly concerned with supporting the door area when the top is up. Probably would have been better (but much more expensive) if HiLo had used 3 lifting points on each side (6 cables rather than 4) but it's sure not worth trying to go back and engineer that at this point.

r67northern · 07-16-2018, 10:31 AM

This is an interesting discussion. Mine certainly has sag, but no broken welds that I saw as I had it all ripped apart. It seems like it's just long term flex and the natural weak point in the middle where the door is.

At the time I didn't consider doing something to alleviate or fix the problem, but this has got me thinking again.

Treeclimber · 07-16-2018, 10:57 AM

r67, With assist from my DSO, we ran a string along both the curb side and the street side. Found a slight door sag AND a slight tip out sag. Have the right size tube for the repair, but not time right now. So, like you said, it's just a bit of flexing. Hasn't gotten worse in years.
Tree

r67northern · 07-16-2018, 03:14 PM

Hi Tree - no tip out on the old 24er so as long as you look at the driver side without the door, she looks nice and straight! Right now the door itself is remaining closed, but if the flex gets worse that will probably change. I'll put it on the back burner as a cooler weather project for sometime when I have time until then.

SamAZ · 07-26-2018, 08:26 PM

I am not sure what you all are referring to as an outrigger. I was having an issue with the upper door on my 2205T binding in the frame when closing and making it hard to open. I had assumed that the upper frame had possibly sagged over time. I made a screw-type lifting support (spreading bar) that lifts the right-front corner of the upper camper section about 1/4" and relieves some of the binding of the upper door when closing & opening. See attached photo.

marininn · 07-26-2018, 08:48 PM

That black 2x2 inch tubing poking out of the gray colored side of the camper is the outrigger. Doesn't the top rest on that when down?

Nice fix.

Beach Papa · 07-31-2018, 12:21 PM

My 24' 2002 HiLo Silver does have three outriggers on each side. Unfortunately, on the curb side, the welds holding the middle outrigger to the frame have cracked at the top and the outrigger sags. I think the 2" square hard rubber pads fell off all the outriggers except the middle one and in the lowered position that one outrigger was taking the majority of the load. Like most others, the middle of the curb side wall sags, causing misalignment at the door which I can live with if I have to but I am considering re-welding the middle outrigger at the proper height. However, I am not sure how to do that safely since the wood floor attaches to the top of the beam right where the weld is broken. Any suggestions??

Treeclimber · 07-31-2018, 12:38 PM

Beach Papa, I'm going to have a third outrigger installed on both sides soon. One by the door and the other side near the aft end of the tip out. Both these ares are showing signs of sagging-not much, but enough to bother me. As far as pads, on my 27'er they were too far out on the ends of the outriggers causing a bulge on the side. I replaced all contact points with hockey pucks. Two on the "A" frame, two on the rear bumper and one on each outrigger. When lowered, all is level.
Tree

Treeclimber · 07-31-2018, 12:41 PM

Also, I have really good bamboo flooring near the weld area, but the welder says "Not a problem" hummm. Says he can spot weld and keep returning to the top area to prevent too much heat build up. Course I could take up the flooring...NOT
Tree

marininn · 07-31-2018, 03:15 PM

Correct, the welder can do small welds at a time so no heat builds up. Don't worry about the floor, it will not burn. It might not harm it even if he does the whole weld at once, yes it gets hot, but if wood catches on the bottom side on fire just tamp it out. The camper won't burn. I do not know how close the wood is, so defer to the welder, he knows and does this all the time. If far enough away the heat will dissipate through the whole frame so not heat the wood so much…

Savage709 · 08-31-2018, 12:37 AM

is this sagging a common issue with Hi Lo trailers?

oldcarguy · 08-31-2018, 05:36 PM

Not sure if it qualifies as "common" - my guess is that it's more likely related to use and mileage.

Our 2307 was very well maintained, but has also seen a lot of use in its 10 years of life to date, probably as much as most trailers get in 20 or more (the woman we bought it from lived in it pretty much full time and was on the road more or less constantly for 6-8 months per year for about 5 years).

My guess is that the minor sagging around the door opening is due to flexing as the trailer moved around on its suspension - it's not serious, but I'd like to prevent any further issues, which is why I started looking into adding or two more outrigger supports adjacent to the door opening.......