Rotted wood, how about completely new top design?

So I'm new here but picked up a 1995 Tow lite 21' the other day. I had planned on building my own large, slide off and on, teardrop camper that would go off and on a 16' car hauler. In our state that would not only give me a car hauler when needed but only the trailer would have to be licensed not the camper. Anyway, while browsing for a trailer I came across this Hi-Lo that seemed like a better start. For $1100 I had a good base and all the working appliances I would have had to buy for my project anyway. So now I don't care about the car hauler part and am kicking around just using the lower clamshell part of the trailer and re-working the entire roof. I still want the low profile for towing but don't necessarily care about all hard sides. I was thinking of two big flat roof panels that lift and form a peaked roof like an Aliner popup has. I would use canvas sides though not the hard sides the Aliner uses. Then a "dormer" that goes over the couch to increase headroom there. In the back I would build a new boxed storage section over the rear bumper extending the rear back about 2" and the slope would start there leaving almost 6' of headroom by the time it reaches the stock rear bathroom. I would use Singcore panels (singcore.com) that would weigh about 180# total. I don't know what the current roof weighs but seems very heavy.
The advantages I see in this is should be a lighter, definitely lower and narrower when down for less frontal area, gives me a space to mount a cool slide out exterior sink and BBQ in the rear like an Australian popup camper has, and would feel really open inside with 10' height at the peak.
The disadvantages would be loosing the easy setup (although I wonder if I could use the factory lift cables to pull the top sections?), the all hard sides, all the upper cabinets, and the exterior awning.
Here is the damage


and you can see the buckled main roof that caused the leaking and rotting

Hersbird said:

So I'm new here but picked up a 1995 Tow lite 21' the other day. I had planned on building my own large, slide off and on, teardrop camper that would go off and on a 16' car hauler. In our state that would not only give me a car hauler when needed but only the trailer would have to be licensed not the camper. Anyway, while browsing for a trailer I came across this Hi-Lo that seemed like a better start. For $1100 I had a good base and all the working appliances I would have had to buy for my project anyway. So now I don't care about the car hauler part and am kicking around just using the lower clamshell part of the trailer and re-working the entire roof. I still want the low profile for towing but don't necessarily care about all hard sides. I was thinking of two big flat roof panels that lift and form a peaked roof like an Aliner popup has. I would use canvas sides though not the hard sides the Aliner uses. Then a "dormer" that goes over the couch to increase headroom there. In the back I would build a new boxed storage section over the rear bumper extending the rear back about 2" and the slope would start there leaving almost 6' of headroom by the time it reaches the stock rear bathroom. I would use Singcore panels (singcore.com) that would weigh about 180# total. I don't know what the current roof weighs but seems very heavy.
The advantages I see in this is should be a lighter, definitely lower and narrower when down for less frontal area, gives me a space to mount a cool slide out exterior sink and BBQ in the rear like an Australian popup camper has, and would feel really open inside with 10' height at the peak.
The disadvantages would be loosing the easy setup (although I wonder if I could use the factory lift cables to pull the top sections?), the all hard sides, all the upper cabinets, and the exterior awning.
Here is the damage

and you can see the buckled main roof that caused the leaking and rotting

Click to expand...

Hersbird, 30 plus individuals have viewed your post and you have not had any replies, so I will throw in my 2 cents worth. Unlike a number of members, I have not had any experience rebuilding a Hi Low, but from what you have posted it sounds like you should gut the unit, keeping anything you want to salvage and start from scratch. Using the lift system would be a challenge as there are guide blocks and rails on both the upper and lower part of the trailer that keeps the top half stable as it is raised. Without a solid lower half the top would not be stable as it was raised.

I won't gut it, the bottom clamshell is perfect. Worst case I will fix the top back to stock, I just think the top could be modernized with better materials and possibly a better design. A better design at least for my use.
Looks like it is uncharted territory maybe.

Hersbird said:

I won't gut it, the bottom clamshell is perfect. Worst case I will fix the top back to stock, I just think the top could be modernized with better materials and possibly a better design. A better design at least for my use.
Looks like it is uncharted territory maybe.

Click to expand...

I guess I misunderstood where you intended to use the canvas instead of a hard side. But it would still be a challenge to use the lift system for the top.

I think, Garry, he'd have to have a rigid framework, possibly made of metal beams (or wood, now that I think about it) and then simply cover that framework with fabric sides. It wouldn't actually collapse like a popup.

The roof you're thinking of though Hersbird, is a bit of a puzzle to me. I can see how you could support a flat roof or even a peaked roof, but it sounds like you want a peaked roof to collapse flat too. That would take some ingenious supports, I believe.

If you do this, PLEASE post lots of pictures, documenting your construction. I think everyone would want to see what you've done!

- Jack

Look up Aliner pop-up. The canvas I talk about would be the triangle side panels but the more I look at them I think I could do hard sides the same way the Aliner does it. The roof panels would be structural insulated panels and the torsion box design from Singcore look like would support themselves.

Cool! I saw an A-Liner in action on one of our tent camping trips before we bought the Hi-Lo, and I'd forgotten how slick it was. The only thing that turned us off was that it had no internal "potty", and, was somewhat smaller than we wished for.

Again, looking forward to pictures of your project!

- Jack

The top half of the trailer is framed out of 1" steel tubing and then covered with plywood on the inside and fiberglass or aluminum siding outside. It is rather heavy. It looks like the main damage on yours is in the very rear. Most of the older trailers up till somewhere in the 1990s used fiberglass endcaps on the front and rear of the top section. Finding one of those (or making one if you're handy) may be an easy solution if you decided to repair it. Patching the side siding wouldn't be too difficult if you found the same type of siding (possibly what you would remove from the rear). Repairing what is there would be a simpler project than a total top redesign but I do like your idea and I know it will save a bunch of weight. With some engineering ingenuity I believe you could get the pulley/cable system to work for your application also.

I do have all the old missing siding and bottom seals. I might be missing 2 of the little pieces that go on the backside lip of the top that follow the guide strips on the side. If impossible to find probably could make something out of a drawer guide because that's what it looks like. My wife wants to go on a 2 week long trip in June so I may just quickly fix what I got and then try to rebuild it my way as a winter project.
One thing I know is this is the right place for the info! Been spending hours reading all the fix-it pages and manuals here on this site.

There is a lot of info on this site and if it isnt posted already, someone may have an answer. Looking at the buckled ceiling pic kinda worries me it the fact that it has the square steel tubing frame I mentioned. Some of it may have rusted through causing that buckle. I found some of mine in the walls that were about half rusted through from leaks. Since it wasnt broken completely I just filled it with some industrial 2 part epoxy from a chemical refinery and covered it back up. If its broken through, you could sleeve it possibly with a larger piece of tubing and some epoxy to cover the break. If its broken at a weld, its gonna have to be welded back which can be tricky without removing everything around it. Regardless, you will need to remove the upper cabinets to get the roof panels down and see what you find under it. I would say do this first as it may help you make a decision on whether to fix it or rebuild the top your way. You can be looking at the tubing in less than an hour. Cabinets come out easily as they just unscrew. Lift the cabinet bottom up to reveal the wall screws at the back and all the wiring to the lights. It's a pretty quick job. The inside of the trailer is still in great shape. Would be a shame to do away with it. It will take some work but everything is repairable. Be sure to seal anything that is a possible leak when repairing with a caulk that will remain flexible. If it won't get paint, use silicone. If it may get paint, I would suggest Pro Flex RV sealant. Good stuff. Good luck and if you have questions, there is always someone here willing to help!

Hersbird said:

I do have all the old missing siding and bottom seals. I might be missing 2 of the little pieces that go on the backside lip of the top that follow the guide strips on the side. If impossible to find probably could make something out of a drawer guide because that's what it looks like. My wife wants to go on a 2 week long trip in June so I may just quickly fix what I got and then try to rebuild it my way as a winter project.
One thing I know is this is the right place for the info! Been spending hours reading all the fix-it pages and manuals here on this site.

Click to expand...

Those two little guide pieces can be purchased from J&R, very inexpensive. They also have a supply of end caps and tanks. They can supply most any parts that are particular to the HiLo. Good luck with the project and from the looks at the inside I would rebuild what you have.

Redesigning the HiLo for repairs

The inside of your HiLo is beautiful. If it was me I would rebuild it back to original condition.

First "mod" today was clean the fridge. The camper looks beautiful on the inside but it has sat for years with food in the fridge. I'm talking mayo, pickles, catsup... or at least I think that's what was in there! If I don't come back it's because the black mold killed me.

I also jacked on the roof some and popped that top a little straighter. I do think I'm just going to patch the structure and cover it up for now. I can do that for less then $100 and be camping.

I think there are aerodynamic improvements to be made but at what cost? We were getting 15 mpg towing it as is, best case get 17-18 with a better profile but spend $1000 and only use it 500 miles a year. In 50 years it might pay for itself.

I get about 15 MPG towing mine so thats probably about right. You have to figure that with the low profile of the top dropping, that stops a lot of wind drag as opposed to a normal trailer. So things could be a lot worse. Hi Lo's are kinda heavy because of the steel frame but make up for it in wind drag.

cleaning out the fridge

I sure can relate. Our HiLo came with one boil bag meal that had been left in there for some months. At least the mess was contained in the bag.

For what it's worth, and not trying to hijack the thread, you should prop the refrigerator door open when it's stored and not in use so that it will stay dry and to prevent any mold/odor buildup.

If you DO have to close the door, a trick we learned during my time in the Air Force, when we would have to place a refrigerator or freezer in storage for any length of time was to put ground coffee (fresh, not used) into socks, knot them closed, and then hang the socks off of the shelves if they were wire or just place them on a couple different shelves if they were solid. The coffee, maybe about a half cup per sock would absorb moisture and would impart a wonderful smell to the inside of the refrigerator/freezer. Any mold that developed would be confined to the socks.

Naturally, the socks should be clean if you try the sock method.

- Jack

Jack, you're correct about the clean socks. That way you can just use them like a tea bag when you're done with them......

Well I finished one side completely and the framework on the other and added a cross brace across the rear and attached the cables and slide blocks. Now it at least it goes up and down smooth again under it's own power. I am missing one 6' chunk of siding, and need to rebuild the rear corners and then do something to make the inside in the bath look better along with sealing all the seams and windows up well to prevent future problems.

I'm thinking of stealing a piece of siding off the lower 1/2 as it seems less critical there, and replace it with some sheet aluminum. I also think I'm going to add a 5K btu window A/C to the lower side wall so I will have a few feet from that cut. So much less expensive then a roof unit and will run on a Honda or Yamaha 2000W generator. Not ideal for cooling being low and small, but this is Montana not Arizona. Maybe in the cabinet under the stove as I don't have an oven or microwave.

I checked out all the appliances and everything is good, the fridge will actually freeze on anything over 1/2 dial although it's only in the 50's so far outside. I do have a toilet that sprays when you flush, must of had some water in the line and froze. I have fixed that valve on my last camper so should be no problem. furnace, pump, hot water, charger/inverter, lights, outlets, awning all seem good. The grey tank is leaking at the drain joint but the black is clean and solid. Need to repack the bearings for good measure and check to see if the brakes work. Very happy, making reservations for Yellowstone tonight!

Glad to hear the project is going well. The AC issue may be a slight problem as anything in the lower section has to be flush to the outside so the top can lower over it. The rear vents wouldn't be a problem but the side vents is where the fan pulls it's air to blow through the rear coil. You will need some way to let these side vents "breathe" with outside air. My suggestion would be make your hole wider and taller than the AC and build a small wall further into the trailer in front of the side/top vents so outside air can circulate around it. It will take a little engineering but can be done. Good luck and enjoy Yellowstone!

Shirley4ever said:

The inside of HiLo is pretty awesome..

Click to expand...

Shirley, I sent you a private message.