Lift Cable Replacement Prep - Eyebolt Lengths

Thanks Jack on the cable thimble link. I actually was describing the very small round sleeve that the shoulder of the bolt passes through. It is grooved on its outside circumference and the cable lays tight in the groove. Similar to this:



That’s interesting. Do you think the difference between metal/wood frame is due to the size or year of your unit?

I would’ve imagined all recent years would’ve had the cables bolted into metal.

That's different than my trailer's connections. Mine uses the thimble style. I think possibly, the more recent trailers had a wooden beam at the bottom of the upper half. I could be wrong about that of course, but someone else, a while back had the hole in his strip out and I suggested he fill it with epoxy, then redrill it.

I have no idea what the washer/pulley looking things you have are called. I think thimbles would work though. I did a search for "steel cable end fittings" and came up blank.

- Jack

Thanks Jack. These pictures from r67northern’s Classic rebuild have the same connection that I have.

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I can see what looks like a nut welded to the top of the framework for the bolt:



I’m wondering if it would be possible or if it would be foolish to potentially lag the new cable ends into the wooden beam instead of the metal framework. I am nervous that the other 3 bolts are going to be just as bad as the first, and I don’t know how successful trying to drill and extract the remainder of the bolt will be.




I can’t imagine there would be much different between the two locations, but I could also be very, very wrong.

-Nick

NTL1991, in my opinion you do not want to replace the bolt in the frame with a lag into the wood beside it. When I tore my walls apart the wood pieces were just that, pieces. (Mine is a 2007.) Since you have a 2001 and the same round disc for your cable, I am thinking your build is very similar to mine.

The cable bolt passes through the frame and above the frame is an “L” bracket between the bottom horizontal frame rail and an adjacent vertical rail. On the “L” bracket is a welded nut. The board that you are considering lagging to is only fastened to the frame rail by a few screws. If you hook into the wood, I think the probability of the wood separating from the wall is extremely high. And as mentioned above, it is not a continuous piece of wood. In my wall it was very short and the rest of the area was an aluminum channel, also held on by just a few screws.

If you zoom up on my frame, you can almost see where the “L” brackets are on the back side of the uprights (right near the original blocks of wood. I should have taken more and better pictures, but that is hind sight.

I guess I would try the hardest to drill and extract the bolt first. But working upside down and with a rusted parts is rough.

Keep us posted, (here is a link to my current rebuild with a few pictures.)





It is kind of a head scratcher as to how you can access the broken bolt and nut. It would be a real pain the go at it from the inside wall. But that would be the least destructive method.

I agree with Red. I would NOT try to secure the cable into the wooden beam in your trailer, since you have no idea of it's suitability. I wonder if you could move the mounting point just a small amount, maybe an inch? to the left or right of the original position? This would not put too much "side force" on the pulley, but might give you a place to secure the cable.

You could also mount a heavy angle bracket under and up the outside of the top. Then, you might be able to drill a hole into the outside part, so that the cable would go under and around the lower edge, into a bolt mounted horizontally. It would not look beautiful, but it might give you a secure mount.

Or, a metal shop (or you) could possibly fabricate a "U" shaped plate that would slide up the inside and outside of the top half, bent to match the thickness as the wall. Then, you could place a "through bolt" through this, possibly securing the cable to the inside (there is room for this). If the plate is wide enough (maybe 4"), it should be quite strong.

- Jack

As usual, Jack has some good ideas!
To add to the idea of a U-channel or a piece of angle-iron (like a foot long) with a nut welded on the top side. Secure the U or angle iron securely to your wall and with the nut welded on the top side you could then run a bolt up into the bracket to secure your cable.
The only concern I would have doing this it the size of the hole needed to countersink the nut flush. But the U or angle iron would carry the weight of the wall for you.

I hadn't thought about welding a nut to the plate, but that's a damned good idea too!

Red, I think you're saying to place the nut on the inside of the plate, so that it would go into the side of the trailer's top. I don't see how this would be a problem. Yes, you'd have to drill a larger opening, but I'd simply seal that with Lexel caulk during assembly.

- Jack

Thanks Red and Jack. You’re right, I assumed the wood was a continuous beam. I’m not sure if it helps my situation at all but it seems the metal framework for my year is steel and not aluminum.

I had thought of moving the mounting point over by an inch or so as well. I’m just not sure how I’d manage to secure threads in the new hole without digging into the wall.

It’s silly but I thought about opening up the end of the wall to access the end lower steel tube, and seeing if I could fish a solid steel rod through the tube, passing it through the swaged loop of cable entering up into the tubing where the bolt originally was.

I like the through-bolted plate idea as it sounds very secure, relatively easy and can be painted white to somewhat blend in. This would need to be through-bolted through new holes in the steel tubing, I’d imagine? I like the welded nut idea. That would be countersunk up inside the existing bolt hole in the bottom edge of the metal tubing?

I’m having a hard time visualizing the forces at play here. What’s doing the actual lifting of the wall? Is it the length of cable from the bolt that is slung under the bottom of the wall against the small reinforcement plate?

Thanks again you guys

-Nick

Nick, with the plate, all the lifting would be from the bottom part, running along the bottom edge of the top. For that reason, a fairly wide plate would be good (at least 6", but 12" would be VERY strong, since it would spread the lifting force over a large length of the beam. The through bolt would not be doing any lifting. It would just be holding the plate in place and would provide an attachment point for the cable. If you attached the cable on the outside (I'd do this), the force there would be down, but then the cable would push up against the bottom of the plate, as it went around to the inside. This would lift the top.

Yes, if you painted it, it would not look too gross, and it would be a stronger attachment than the one that came on the HiLo.

- Jack

If I go the route of brackets all around (I'm working with the worst case assumption that all of the bolts will snap on me), I wouldn't necessarily have 6-12 inches in all areas due to awning bracket placement.

I'm not a machinist and I don't know the specifics of bending or welding up plate steel but I came up with this drawing that I think would work. It could be bent or welded, as long as the inside dimension is ~4", the rough dimension I took of the upper-half wall thickness. on the bottom is an exterior weldnut that would allow the thread of the bolt (could be much shorter with this design), to pass through the existing hole in the tubular steel framework, which would be sealed up, of course. I went with the exterior weldnut on the bottom as it wouldn't require opening up the exterior of the wall to allow for it to countersink, and I think it would look better than having the cable coming up the outside of the wall.

One added benefit of this bracket would be that the cable would be bearing against this hefty plate instead of the aluminum cladding and wood along the inside edge of the top, where it currently is on my trailer. I have no reinforcement plates like I've seen on other units, and there is a slit in the aluminum cladding where the cable turns up to the pulley.

There are two 3/8" diameter holes for through-bolting the bracket over the wall assembly. I chose the 2.5" inside height as the top edge would be just under the lower vinyl decal and wouldn't look too bad. This is approximately the same height as the bracket for the door magnet on the roadside. The door magnet could be transferred to this new lift bracket for that corner.

I draw this with 5/16" steel plate but I really have no clue as to what thickness would get the job done without being overly expensive or overly difficult for a shop to make a set of these. I also am wondering if I should allow for two smaller holes at the bottom outside edge of the bracket (bottom 1") for a couple self-tapping metal screws into the steel framework behind, or if that would be unnecessary.



Please share your thoughts. Think this would be doable and sufficient? Should I go with a length over 6"? Should I be attaching the cable end elsewhere?

-Nick

Nick, that would probably be fine, but I think you could use 1/8" steel plate for this. Maybe go as high as 3/16, but I think 5/16" is overkill. I think a 6" length is all that is needed.

Now, the part I don't care for is your placement of the nut. This will cause force on the plate "in" toward the body of the trailer and will exert a "twisting", counter clockwise force on the plate as viewed in your bottom right drawing. I would keep the nut on the outside surface (left hand leg of the "U" in that drawing) which would still need no huge hole in the side of the trailer. But now, the force on the nut will try to pull the plate in to the side of the top (as well as trying to compress it to the bottom of the U, which it can't do) and the cable underneath will provide pure lift force, rather than a side force at the bottom. Personally, I don't think the cable running up the side will be particularly noticeable and the nut won't be either. I'd place the nut higher on the plate too, so that all the cable hardware is on the side, before it crosses underneath.

I don't think you really need 3/8" holes for the mounting screws either. There is NO force trying to pull the plate down, and I think 1/8" sheet metal screws would hold it in place if there was no upwards pull on the cable (when the top is down, resting on the outriggers). I don't think you need these screws to go all the way through to the other side either. The top is "resting" on the "U", and the "U" is being pulled up by the cable. The cable doesn't really need to be connected to the top at all, just to the "U".

I don't think my trailer would allow a 2.5" inside height either, because it would interfere with the rubber gasket tube that seals the space between the bottom half and the top. Fortunately, this leg really doesn't have to be high at all. Having it curl around to the inside is probably a good idea, but I don't think that part needs to be much more than 1/2-3/4".

These are just my thoughts. Your design should work too. The longer inside leg height will overcome the twisting force caused by a bottom nut placement. even with a thinner steel plate. And yes, a steel plate will overcome the "cutting" by the cable that you've experienced.

- Jack

Thank you, Jack. Your suggestions make sense and I think I’ve been getting in my head about the weight of the top. Your explanation about forces makes sense now. Since the steel framework seems to be 1", would you recommend placing the screw holes lower in this area? I figured there wouldn't be much use screwing into the fiberglass, luan and insulation, which is why I though about through-bolting the bracket, but from your explanation it's doesn't seem necessary to clamp the wall assembly in that fashion. I'm thinking now about the possibility of using 3/16 pop rivets (maybe 5 or 6?) to secure the bracket into fresh holes in the 1" framework.

Something more like this?

That looks fine to me, but if you use steel pop rivets, I doubt you'd need more than two. From your diagram, they'd go into the steel box beam. They don't really need to have much strength, just enough to keep the plate from falling off if there's no upwards pull on it. I'd put one in each of the outer holes you show.

I think that design is a good one, but I should add that if anyone else has a different opinion, please don't hesitate to add your input. A design "team" will generally come up with a superior product compared to that which is proposed by one person.

- Jack

Here's what we have so far. 3/16 steel, weldnut on the exterior face, and 3 holes for steel pop rivets into the metal framework. Outside face is 2.5" tall, inside edge is 1-1/4".

I like it, I don't think it would be too invasive to install, and I think with some white paint it wouldn't look too bad, while doing all the things it has to do.

I like it too! Well done!

- Jack

I’ve been digging through parts catalogs from MSC and McMaster Carr for the little metal spool, or thimble on the top end of the lift cable.

Seems I could just create my own with some stacked washers of a couple diameters, larger outer washers to keep the cable contained, and enough smaller washers inside to fit the 3/16 cable.

This should allow me to keep the swage sleeve on the side, with the cable going down and under the bracket, cradling the bottom of the top section.

I’ll mull this all over as I try to get the rest of the bolts out in one piece. I’ve used quite a bit of PB blaster pretreating them, but it’ll only crawl up the threads so much.

-Nick

Nick, I think your idea would work, but it's going to be difficult to implement. From experience, when I disconnected one of my cables to fix the top where the cable cut into it, there is a fairly significant amount of tension on the cable when you try to reattach it. You have to have this tension, or there will be too much slack in the cable to remove with the adjustment bolt.

Now this tension might make it difficult to keep your washers together as you try to get the bolt in. I see the cable pushing the washers apart and settling on the bolt, before you can tighten everything down. My trailer uses cable thimbles - I don't see why those would not work for you. You could possibly cut the "legs" of the thimbles if you want to get the swage sleeves closer to the bolt.

Could you possibly re-use the spool on your current cables?

- Jack

Ah, I was working under the assumption that I would be making the connection on that end of the cable first, then feeding the threaded rod end of the cable into the adjustment holes in the frame. I figured this would work since I’m making all new cables.

I believe I should be able to reuse the old spools but because they will be visible now, I thought about going new. I should be able to wire brush them up and maybe even paint them to match the brackets.

I like your idea about cutting down the legs of the thimbles to allow for a smaller diameter. That trick could definitely come in handy.

-Nick

I think you're better off attaching the adjustment bolt side first. Do it with only one adjustment nut installed, fully on so that the bolt end is flush with the outside of the nut. This way, you have maximum adjustment remaining to tighten the cable. You'll still need to get as much slack out of the cable as you can before attaching it to the top.

This part is kinda difficult. A come-along will work to remove most of the slack and it probably takes two people to make sure the cable stays on all the pulleys. I've thought about using turnbuckles (under the trailer) to provide additional adjustment, but they have to be chosen with enough strength to not weaken the cable.

- Jack

Understood. That makes sense, Jack. Thank you

Hopefully another bit of warmer weather will come to take care of all of this!