Alternators-you southerners

[hilltool]

Maybe I should put this on a pick-up blog-----but it is somewhat germaine to towing.

My alternator went kapute yesterday (referenced in my
transmission post) - I guess. 143,000 miles and 15 years I'm not shocked. But---like three different people have told me "the heat tends to make them go bad". Yes- it has been unusually hot here( WI) this summer- 4 or 5 days that broke 100 mark. many many days in nineties. However, those of you in TEXAS and ARIZONA and Florida and NEVADA would not find such weather, necessarily, totally out of the realm of usual. And many of you tow through such areas, I assume.

So- do people living in hotter climates tend to trash out alternators more often? I am a bit confused.

Rick

 

[RichR]

I don't the answer to your alternator question, but I know they make car batteries for both north and south because of the temperature difference.

 

[JackandJanet]

I've not had an alternator failure in any of my vehicles here. I'm driving a 91 Honda daily driver, 2005 F150 for towing and hauling and have had a Mazda pickup followed by a Toyota and then a Nissan P/U. Never any alternator problems.

But, I'm lucky to get 3 years out of any battery.

- Jack

 

[raamw]

electronic

I was trained in electronics many years ago when I was in the Navy. The leading causes to electrical components failure was #1 water, #2 Heat and #3 vibrations
On Military aircraft all electrical components where mounted on shock mounts to control the vibrations, heat was not an issue inside the aircraft as would a water problem, outside a different story.

Now think about the conditions under the hood, no vibration control other than the engine mounts, water no way to prevent that other than to bury the alternator in the V of the engine ( which my 97 150 did) and heat, well I have seen my stock exhaust headers glow from towing in the mountains so heat could go through the ceiling. It amazes that the electrical components last as long as it does

 

[RCREYES]

Went through 14 days above 100 before the first day of summer this year and haven't had an issue.

 

[jcurtis95]

I have owned dozens of automobiles and trucks in my lifetime, most of them have been of the later vintage alternators versus the earlier generators. In those years during my teens, I have replaced innumerable 'brushes' on the generators.

I have replaced only one alternator in my lifetime, a 1979 Chevy K-5. Had I not been on the road, I would probably have torn it apart and tried to find the part to fix it myself.

Our current TV is a 2000 Ford, F250, 7.3L Diesel 4x4 with 198K miles and alternator still going strong. Now that I've brought it up, the alternator will probably fail tomorrow!

Jerry Curtis
2406T

 

[hilltool]

RCREYES---my point exactly.

rammw---good point!

Well, it is all water under the bridge, now. But- I'm wondering: The check engine light went on and then after about 24 hrs it was no longer there, but i had made the appt so they checked , said it was an O2 sensor, and they replaced it.

I drove it home. parked it. Nephew drove it a bit the next day then headed down interstate when everything quit. So I wonder= maybe low voltage from ALT threw a code-or made check engine light go on- and they either made something up or there was an old O2 code sitting in there ---so they did the quickest and simplest. However, makes me wonder because in terms of routine maintenance-----I usually don't pay any attention to the alternator. Going down the highway at 60 pulling a hi-lo and suddenly have brakes, engine, power steering, and brake controller QUIT would have been exceptionally interesting. The chance of this happening seems like a major enough safety issue ( potentially) that you would think mfgs would build in better idiot warning devices. The f150 has a gauge and no light and I doubt the nephew would pay attention to it----but I cannot say I always look at the voltage gauge when I get and start driving, myself. I will from now on.

Thanks for everyone's feedback

Rick

 

[jcurtis95]

About 9 years ago, a brother and sister-in-law and another couple drove into our Colorado mountain home in a motor home. I noticed something odd as they pulled in the driveway, the on-board generator was running and a battery charger was sitting on the dashboard with the cables run through the window and connected to the battery through a slightly ajar hood that had been tied down with a rope.

The generator had gone out on their motor home and was not charging the battery. The check-engine light was on and they had to put a charger on the battery when stopping at night to keep the 'new' battery charged. We ran a few tests and while we read 15+ volts on the volt-ohm meter, my brother-in-law felt that it was probably not sufficient in output to provide the amperage needed to keep the battery at full charge. He went to town and had to order a very expensive alternator that was shipped over night to the Napa store.

They were spending a few days with us so we waited two days before the overnight shipment made it to our remote mountain community. when we changed the alternator out, the result was the same, it was not delivering a sufficient charge to the battery and the check engine light remained on.

After looking it over I noticed the alternator was near the maximum on the adjustment. I loosened the alternator, got a long pry bar, applied a lot of tension to the alternator and tightened the lock nuts and sprayed some belt spray on the v-belt. Voila! Everything started working.

While the tension had originally seemed sufficient, it was still lacking and not turning the alternator sufficiently to charge the battery and run the on-board 12 volt requirements. While the v-belt looked good, it had become worn to the point that it could not maintain enough tension on the alternator.

He purchased a new v-belt and they made the remainder of their 6,000 plus round trip to Alaska without further failures of their 12-volt system.

The motor home was powered with a v-8 Chevy engine.

Jerry Curtis
2406 T

 

[raamw]

Couple of facts, a car can run without a good battery once you get it jumped,cheap jumpers sometimes won't work, but if the alternator goes out you can only run until the battery goes dead then the game is over and you will not even be able to jump start it.

In the old days there use to be a voltage regulator, now these are incorporated into the alternator so when either goes kaput you really can't diagnose the problem.

 

[hilltool]

Interesting, but, Jcurtis, I LOVE that story!

At any rate- when the f150 went I guess, he(nephew) claims, he lost everything and had to use emergency brake once he got to the shoulder. Still, by the time I got there the flashers were still on and the other lights and gauges inside were doing all the the low voltage crazy stuff---going on and off, beeping- the brak controller kept flashing "6" though it wasn't hooked to anything. Like i said- we (tow truck)were able to get a start but that was with jumpers attached. Battery was new last year so , so far, I guess it didn't trash the battery with that much discharge though I will keep an eye on it.

HE had one of those little battery packs ----and I think I may get one to carry.

Rick

 

[retiredcamper47]

I prefer gauges on the dash rather than the idiot lights. When the idiot light comes on, it is too late. At least with gauges, you can monitor the performance of your vehicle. The battery is only used for starting the vehicle. Once started, the alternator supplies power to the vehicle while putting a charge back into the battery for the next start. Back in the day we use to check out the alternator by disconnecting the battery cable. If everything still worked on the vehicle, the alternator was ok. If the vehicle died, the alternator (or voltage regulator) was bad. With all the electronics on today's vehicles, I don't think this would be a good diy test to perform. Just traveling down memory lane................

Bob

 

[JackandJanet]

The trouble is, many of the "gauges" in modern vehicles are really just disguised idiot lights. The voltmeter gauge in my 2005 F150 is an example. It reads mid range as long as there is battery voltage, regardless of whether the alternator is charging or not. The oil pressure gauge is activated by a simple pressure switch, that shows mid range as long as there is ANY pressure above some very low "off" limit. The coolant temperature is actually inferred from the cylinder head temperature - there's no coolant temperature sensor and it too NEVER moves once normal operating temperature is reached. The gas gauge is the only real "meter" (besides the tach and the speedometer).

I happen to have a programmer installed in my truck though that DOES give me actual readouts of important values. I know when towing that I'll see alternator outputs ranging from 14.2V down to 13.6V, depending on the draw from the trailer. The Cylinder head temperature varies between 200 to about 226, depending on engine load. And, I can and do monitor the transmission fluid temperature too. I briefly monitored oil temperature, but it varies all over the place according to engine load. There is no actual pressure sensor to obtain that reading from.

So, don't put too much faith in the dashboard "gauges". They may be mostly for "show". The Check Engine Light though should be given a great deal of respect and should be treated as a "Master Caution" warning. While there are many minor things that will trigger it, the major things will too.

- Jack

 

[Fireballsocal]

I think the manufacturers have moved from accurate guages that move to guages that give a much more general readout so the general public doesn't panic the instant the temp guage goes slightly elevated. I prefer good accurate guages myself but have come to the conclusion that I'll bother with the truck when it stops running. Till then, I'll keep up on maintainance and not worry about anything else.

As an aside on the check engine light: I was driving a first generation toyota prius rental through Colorado and got gas in the Rockies. Thinking to save a few cents, I opted for 86 octane (Which I had never seen anywhere else). After I got out of the mountains, the check engine light came on. I panicked. The car ran fine but there were no dealers open on a Sunday. After waiting for about half an hour, I just decided to go for it. 400 miles later, the light went off after I filled up with gas and used 87 octane this time. Turns out the little prius didn't like that low octane and let me know with the check engine light.

 

[hilltool]

That reminds me of a story a friend was telling me last night. On the west side of the little city we live in- he daily commuted through a particular area and each day when he went through there the check engine light would come on. He was telling this to a co-worker and the co-worker ( they were both engineers and pretty handy DIY persons in terms of mechanics...) said his light went on at the same place. Turns out they were driving through an old land fill area that still had enough methane being vented that their O2 sensors were picking it up. So, you are right, who knows what the check engine light is telling you. Which makes me interested in jack's "programmer".

jack- where did you get that? Might be too little too late for my truck or, at this age of the truck, JUST the thing to have.

Rick

 

[JackandJanet]

The programmer is an Edge CTS that has custom tunes written for it by Bill Cohron at PHPTune.com. I'm a moderator on their forum, as well as being a moderator at f150online.com.

That programmer or the less expensive CS would work on your truck, but you couldn't use ALL of its features. One that I know of that won't work is the ability to adjust your speedometer for non-OEM tire sizes. (You have to change the VSS gear in the rear axle in those older trucks.) The CTS gives you the a screen that will display the image from any backup camera that has an RCA plug for output.

Bill could write custom tunes for you or you could use the canned tunes that come with the unit. The canned tunes include an 87 octane towing tune, a 91+ octane performance non-tow tune and a transmission only tune. The tow and performance tunes increase your HP and torque, and adjust the transmission shift points in a way that both increases longevity and improves performance.

I found that when my truck is tuned, it not only performs much better (superior passing performance) but that it also gets better gas mileage. I recovered the cost of my custom towing tune back when gas was around $4.00/gal in one 2,000 mile towing trip into Colorado.

Now, there are other programmers that do much the same thing. SCT makes several (one with the gauge capability) and so does Diablo. Each manufacturer has its supporters, and I am confident about the ones I'm discussing here, based on user input from members at f150online. All simply plug into the OBD port to do their thing and are dead simple to install.

There are also non-programming gauge devices that also plug into the OBD port of your truck. ScanGauge and UltraGauge are two such devices. They are much cheaper than an actual programmer.

One of the features I like about my device is that I can set alerts for anything that the Engine Computer monitors. So, I'll get an alarm if my cylinder head temp or transmission temp is too high, or my alternator output drops too low. Since I have a bit of a "lead foot", I even have an alarm if I hit 85 MPH (when not towing) to keep me from getting tickets. Others may have this feature too.

Please forgive me if I sound like a salesman here. I have no monetary interest in any of the companies I discuss, but I DO know Bill Cohron at PHP personally. He's a good guy.

Edit: These devices also allow you to read engine and transmission codes if you get a Check Engine Light and you can use them to clear those codes if desired.

Edit 2: I think you can read this link at f150online that I posted without being a member: http://www.f150online.com/forums/chips-tuners-programming/386057-questions-about-tunes-read.html It will answer many questions you and others may still have. (Programmers are made for other vehicle makes too, they're not exclusive to Ford.)

- Jack

 

[hilltool]

Thanks, Jack.

Rick

 

[sting32]

wish I could get a good one like what you post about, for my 2000 Dakota...

 

[JackandJanet]

wish I could get a good one like what you post about, for my 2000 Dakota...

I just did a search, and though I don't know your engine size, SCT makes the Xcalibrator 2 for 2000 Dakotas: http://www.sctflash.com/#2 (You can input your vehicle information here.)

The one shown for the Dakota is a programmer only. For the gauge monitoring system, you'd need the ScanGauge or the UltraGauge.

SCT has a good reputation.

One thing worth saying: These programmers are not the little "chips" that are sold under a number of names, usually in the $60-$70 price range that promise tons of HP and torque increase while improving your fuel economy by some large amount. One such brand is the G-Force Performance chip. A tipoff that they are snake oil is that they advertise models for any vehicle in the world! These things are about as useful as the "fuel atomizers" that used to be sold for the same purposes.

- Jack

 

[sting32]

I found only this Edge Products| Product
so far... I didnt look at SCT yet, since it is a pipe dream right now. your link didnt work (blank error page for me) but I put in the info, they sell a blank something, without any "tunes" on them...

Mine's a 2000 Dakota 4x4, with 4.7 and 5speed.

I'm hundreds of miles from anywhere other than $100 per hour dodge dealers, to look at it to boot. Oh well. My plan is to luck out and find an H.O. version of this motor from similar truck or jeep, refresh it and install, someday.

 

[JackandJanet]

Sorry, Sting. I've corrected the link and it should show you a programmer that would work on your truck when you enter your vehicle information in the drop-down dialogs.

The one you show a link to from Edge is a similar device. I think the HP and torque figures they list are fairly accurate - they base them on dyno data.

You'll notice the gains are MUCH more realistic than what is posted for the G-Force chip. And, programmers make auto transmission adjustments too, which I guess doesn't help you.

I have not found a combination programmer/monitor device for your truck.

Find a forum for your truck that looks like it has some members with a bit of intelligence (not all forums qualify), and you'll probably find a discussion on the relative merits of various brands of programmers. You'll probably find references to custom tuners who have a good reputation for writing tunes for your specific vehicle too.

- Jack