I installed timbren rubber overload springs on my Tundra.

[Fireballsocal]

I tow my 2203T to various places to ride offroad motorcycles and with a loaded trailer plus my bike, gear, and fuel in the back of the truck, my 2006 tundra sagged more than I liked. I didn't want to deal with airbags and these timbrens looked like a much more hands off approach while still giving me the load handling I wanted.

Installation was about 45 minutes and fairly easy. A good selection of sockets and extensions is needed to bolt the spring onto the spring bracket but since I had the needed equipment, installation was easy. They just take the place of the factory bump stops in this application.

These are designed to only come into play when weight is added so you'll notice that there is a gap between the top of the rubber spring and the truck frame. As weight is added, the trucks sags till the rubber spring contacts the frame, providing extra support. Unloaded, the ride is the same with an extra firmness being felt when you go over larger bumps and driveway transitions. The extra firmness is cushy, not harsh and doesn't detract from the ride of the truck.

I will be towing to glamis next weekend and will update this thread on how the truck rides loaded.

 

[JackandJanet]

I'm sure this is a good idea to prevent "bottoming out" on extremely rough roads, but I can't help but think you need to correct the 'sag" with a good Weight Distributing hitch. As it is, I suspect your rear axle is overloaded and that overload spring is not really compensating for that condition.

The axle rating on your truck is determined by the axle, springs, rims and tires. I'd sure get the axles weighed to make sure the back end is safe.

This is just my 2 cents worth. Please don't hear me putting you down. I like the concept of the overload springs and the way yours are designed.

- Jack

 

[Fireballsocal]

I'm sure this is a good idea to prevent "bottoming out" on extremely rough roads, but I can't help but think you need to correct the 'sag" with a good Weight Distributing hitch. As it is, I suspect your rear axle is overloaded and that overload spring is not really compensating for that condition.

The axle rating on your truck is determined by the axle, springs, rims and tires. I'd sure get the axles weighed to make sure the back end is safe.

This is just my 2 cents worth. Please don't hear me putting you down. I like the concept of the overload springs and the way yours are designed.

- Jack

Not at all Jack, I welcome the critique. I have been in a discussion on the merits of a WD hitch before. They work great and I have nothing against them. I wanted to eliminate that step if possible though as I hitch and unhitch several times more than the average camper. Todays trucks trend toward riding comfortable and that takes soft springs. A truck that can haul it's rated capacity without sagging badly would ride like a rock unloaded.

There are several options to prevent this, from airshocks/bags to helper springs to these timbrens. A WD hitch would work also though it would lower ride highth in the front slightly. I chose the timbrens due to their simplicity, likeing the K.I.S.S. principle (Keep It Simple Stupid).

 

[JIM L-HILO]

Fireball, The three things you mention, airshock/bags, helper springs and timbrens in no way take the place of a WD hitch. They can help prevent bottoming out and airbags can help prevent sagging of the rearend but they do not redistribute any of a possible overload on the rear axle to the front axle. A WD hitch will do this and if set up correctly the TV and trailer should be level. This This level condition returns the TV to best steering and breaking condition. On a dual axle trailer running level also puts equal load on each axle and tires as well as equal breaking on the four tires. Running overloaded on your axle can cause failure of your bearings and at worst failure of the axle itself. These RVs can easily be overloaded when running with full tanks and loaded for a trip an if the tongue is sagging it transfers a lot of weight to the front axle and tires of the RV. With lower load rated original equipment tires you can easily overload these tires and they will overheat causing blow outs. Always buy the highest load rated tires when replacing. We cannot overstress the safety value of WD hitches. Tow safely.

 

[Fireballsocal]

Welp, here goes. This was a terrible modification to my truck. I feel the extra firmness while driving empty but it really isn't an issue except for large bumps like speedbumps or sharp transitions. It's the ride while loaded that is the deal breaker. The terrible freeways here in southern callifornia are really in bad shape. Towing my hi-lo with the standard suspension wasn't bad but there was room for improvement. Towing with these timbrens actually made the ride noticable worse. The ride is buckboard stiff and bounces me around when hitting the cracked sections of pavement on our freeways.

Steering, as expected, wasn't any better while using the timbrens without a WD hitch. It wasn't any worse either however I bought these to improve the load carrying, not improve steering. I just wanted to mention they don't improve steering.

The only thing these did well was to keep the back end of the truck from squatting and dragging the hitch on driveway transitions. . This was at the expense of ride quality though and I will be removing the timbrens in the near future.

 

[JMDoering]

Fireball,

Sorry the timbrens didn't work out as you had hoped.

I know you took some flack here on the HTF for wanting to use them, and I want to tell you how much I respect your honesty in reporting they came up short of your expectations.

Well done!
Jim

 

[JackandJanet]

I'm blown away by your "user report", Fireballsocal. I don't think I've ever seen such a frank admission of a poor choice in all my time in any forum.

I applaud you and, if you ever report on something you actually like, I'll take it as "gospel".

I don't know that we really gave you "flack" here, but you can see some of us thought there might be a problem. Thank you for returning to the discussion with your findings. I/we appreciate it big time. *thumbsup* *beers*

You're in my "pay attention to" list from now on out.

- Jack

 

[PopRichie77]

This might work for you, it worked for me. Install air shocks, measure the height of your front and rear bumper with nothing in the bed, then put you load in the truck bed, the rear bumper will go down, put air in the air shocks to bring the bumper heights back to as close as they were without the load. Now put your trailer on the hitch, the truck bumper will go down again, now adjust the WD to bring the truck bumpers back as close to the original measurement as you can. Check the trailer for level if it is not level adjust he hitch up or down till it is, at the same time keeping the truck bumper measurements, You may have to adjust the WD many times to get it right.
The air shocks ride very well. You could probably use air bags also, on the Hi-Lo CD they mention air bags or other means.
The point here is that a WD is to adjust for the trailer tongue weight, but it can't adjust for a lot of weight that you put in the truck.

 

[JMDoering]

Hi Pop,

Wow, you make this WD hitch business sound like rocket science!

The only thing I've ever done is hitch up. Oh, the first time with a new trailer or TV, I adjust the torsion bar chain links until both trailer and car are level. After that I use the same links for ever after...

"a WD is to adjust for the trailer tongue weight, but it can't adjust for a lot of weight that you put in the truck."

I'm not an engineer, so I may be wrong, but based on my understanding... sorry, I don't really agree with your last sentence. WD hitches used to be called "load equalizing hitches." The meaning is pretty much the same, but the point is, they equalize the weight load of both the trailer and TV, and distribute it evenly between both. The "weight" includes what is placed in the trunk/bed of the TV, not just the hitch weight. Yes, it is possible to overload the back end of a TV and exceed the design weight limits, but with a WD hitch that overload will be distributed evenly between trailer and TV. What will bite you is the wear on the transmission, exceeding braking capacity, etc.

If I've got it wrong, I'm not too old to learn what's right!

Jim

 

[NDgent]

Jim

From my perspective you are right on the money regarding Weight Distributing aka Load Equalizing hitches. The primary purpose of these hitches is to mitigate the "hinging" of the hitch between the TV and trailer, thus allowing the suspension systems of all of the axles to work in concert.

I added Firestone RideRite air springs to my Nissan Frontier to keep the truck from sagging when I tow my 2207 Towlight. Being adjustable, I can change the effect from none to bone jarring by adding or releasing some of the air pressure ... just to make life convenient I purchased a 12v air compressor so I can make adjustments while on the road ... it also comes in handy for topping off tires and inflating beach balls and such.

 

[PopRichie77]

I understand what you are saying, but my next question is, if both can be leveled with the WD hitch, why did you have to add air springs?

 

[NDgent]

Pop

The Ride-Rites are like any other heavy duty spring system such as Overload Leaf Springs, Coil over Shocks, Air Adjustable Shocks, etc; they add to the capacity and dampening rate of the springs. Therefore I can carry a heavier load without over stressing the springs ... of course I do not want to exceed the axle capacity even with the additional spring capacity. Bottom line is my TV and Hi-Lo will bounce less on rough surfaces and when not towing I can drop the air pressure to where I hardly notice the addition of the Ride Rites.

 

[JMDoering]

Pop,

Since I've owned our Bon Voyage, I've never used air shocks or any type of spring augmentation. Just hitch up, making sure both torsion bar chains are shackled to the third link (proper for leveling out my set-up), and go!

Years ago, in the 70's and 80's, I towed with a Toyota FJ-40, If you remember, those things had a really short wheel base. This was not a great vehicle for towing, in fact the braking capacity made them downright dangerous, but it was all I could afford. Well, one advantage to towing with that spine jarring, stiff springed beast was that I got I got a smooooth Cadillac ride for a change! Spreading the weight across two frames and an addition pair of springs (or more), tames even the toughest TV beast.

Going way back, when my dad first bought our 1969 Bon Voyage, we towed with a 1969 Dodge Polara. At the Hi-Lo dealers recommendation, he moved up to a 1970 International Travel-All with the air shocks option (even came with a little on-board compressor for raising the shocks!). With both vehicles we used a Reese "load equalizing" hitch. I still remember our conversation about how neither of us could tell the difference when towing... other than that the Travel-All had a TON more power and made acceleration and passing easier, and didn't tend to overheat in the Smokeys.

Now, I do think air shocks are a good addition when towing light trailers (U-Hauls), with bumper hitches. They nicely level out the TV body, but the driver needs to always remember that the weight is still centered at the hitch point in the rear, and front axle braking is still negatively impacted.

Jim

 

[PopRichie77]

Guys, I agree with you that if the WD hitch bars are rated over the combined weight of the tongue and the addition weight that is put in the TV then the WD should be able to level them both. My SUV wasn't really designed for much weight in the back, also I had a very bad back and forth oscillation when traveling on some concrete roads. The air shocks cured this problem. I didn't use the air shocks to level the trailer only to support the additional load that I put in the SUV. Also the WD Bars that the dealer installed were only rated at 550 lbs. only about a 100 over the tongue weight, not really enough for the 200 lbs. that I put in the back of the SUV. However this setup worked great with our 21 ft. 95T trailer, was very stable.
I have since upgrade to a 2209 which is heavier and has more tongue weight, my set up is not working near as well as it did with the 95, I had to add an additional 20 lbs. to the air shocks to level things up and actually on our 5000 mile trip to FL., I was very displease with the handling, my opinion is that I am going to have to get a better WD hitch with higher rated bars. I guess I am very opinionated, but I don't mind being proved wrong. John, I do basically what you described for the additional weight in the SUV. Do you think that a higher rated hitch will improve things.

 

[Fireballsocal]

Thanks all for the kudos. The best thing about these information sharing websites (Forums) is that we can all help each other have a better camping experience. I don't consider this a big failure as I'll sell the timbrens to recoup a portion of my money and now we know they aren't sutable in our application.

I will also go with a WD hitch in the future and just take the extra time to hitch up. As much as I tried getting around the WD hitch, it is the best choice.

 

[PopRichie77]

Fireballsocal, Check the library , Towing. I just posted a lot of manufacture information on selecting the right weight rated WD hitch, and how to adjust it.

 

[Fireballsocal]

I wanted to update this post since I've now towed 400 miles with a weight distribution hitch and can compare between the WDH, timbren rubber overload springs, and using nothing at all.

There is no contest. The truck rides better and steers truer with the WDH installed. I still need to fine tune the hitch to raise up the tongue of the trailer but as a first run, I now see why everyone feels they are a necessity.

With the WD installed, the rear of my truck doesn't sag anymore and I don't scrape the hitch on steep driveways. The headlights don't blind oncoming traffic, and the light front end and vague steering are gone.

Using nothing at all, my truck sagged really bad and blinded oncoming traffic with it's headlights pointing up. The hitch would drag on steep driveways and while managable, steering was vague.

The timbrens solved the sagging back end and scraping hitch but presented new problems in the horrible ride quality hitched up and unhitched. They did nothing to fix the steering either. I sold these on ebay for just slightly less than what I paid new for them.

The WDH fixes all problems and only presents one additional problem, the extra time to hitch up. I feel it's well worth the additional time to hitch up to get a better towing experience.

To those who tried to steer me to a WDH from the get go, you were absolutely right.

 

[JackandJanet]

Great feedback! I, for one, am delighted you tried the WD hitch. Just looking at all the other "solutions" left me with the feeling of a horrible load on the rear axle of the tow vehicle, reduced steering traction, dive during braking, bad stress on the rear tires of the tow vehicle and, all the other things you mentioned.

There IS a rather unique WD hitch that I suspect might be overkill for us, but here it is: PullRite has a SAFER, STRONGER, BETTER designed hitch for you

This thing essentially puts the tongue over the rear axle, like a 5th wheel or a gooseneck, and, it distributes the weight too (over both axles of the TV).

What really blows me away though, if you watch enough of the videos, you can jackknife your trailer while backing and keep going! This can really get you out of (or into) some very tight spaces.

The only thing I think might be a problem with my truck is that it looks like it would interfere with the spare tire access. Otherwise, WOW!

- Jack

 

[PopRichie77]

Glad to hear you are on the right track. I increased the torusion bars on my WDH from 550lbs to 750 lbs. The 550 tys wouldn't do the job on the 2209 which is heaver than my 95. We have a long trip planed in a few days, several thousand miles till the end. I will get to try the new set up out, already used it a couple hundred miles but the speeds were not sufficient to get a good answer. In my experience you have to be on a major highway with a speed limit of 70, I only drive at around 65 but the test is when large SUV s or tactor trailers blow by you at speeds of 15 to 20 mph faster than you are going, if you get little suck over and little push back, (sway) then you got it right.

 

[goldman]

Fireball, The three things you mention, airshock/bags, helper springs and timbrens in no way take the place of a WD hitch. They can help prevent bottoming out and airbags can help prevent sagging of the rearend but they do not redistribute any of a possible overload on the rear axle to the front axle. A WD hitch will do this and if set up correctly the TV and trailer should be level. This This level condition returns the TV to best steering and breaking condition. On a dual axle trailer running level also puts equal load on each axle and tires as well as equal breaking on the four tires. Running overloaded on your axle can cause failure of your bearings and at worst failure of the axle itself. These RVs can easily be overloaded when running with full tanks and loaded for a trip an if the tongue is sagging it transfers a lot of weight to the front axle and tires of the RV. With lower load rated original equipment tires you can easily overload these tires and they will overheat causing blow outs. Always buy the highest load rated tires when replacing. We cannot overstress the safety value of WD hitches. Tow safely.

THANK YOU Jim,so many people unknowingly endanger themselves and everyone on the road at the same time by trying to save a few bucks,i had someone very dear to me killed by a man pulling an overloaded camper,he had a blow out because of overheated tires that were brand new, however they were underrated as far as load weight,he saved $200.00 and killed 3 people,one of them was HIS daughter.
READ THE MANUALS,STICK TO THE RULES,and everyone is safer