Repair of Black & Grey Water H2O tanks. . . .

[davegilbert]

We just purchased a '99 Hi-Lo Towlite 24' trailer from the neighbor of a relative. However, the trailer does seem to have some issues.

The first one that I need to tackle is unfortunately a damaged black water tank. I've uploaded some photos so you can see what I'm talking about and what the problem is.

Looks like the previous owner may have somehow scraped the black water discharge pipe as the guard raile is bent (and now rusted) and the discharge pipe has broken at or near the joint into the tank.

The grey water tank looks like it has seen a repair or two also, and there are some funky hanging wires.

GROAN, what a way to start our Hi-Lo experience! So I'm hoping I can get some good repair advice from you sage Hi-Lo enthusiasts and repair-meisters!

Can these tanks be patched with a black tank repair kit? Or do they have to be dropped out entirely? And what are the wires?

If it can be repaired, has anyone done this on their own? For instance, can you buy a couple of "Hi-Lift" or Jackall jacks, jack the thing up, and do it yourself? Or is a trip to JR Repair in Ohio in my future? As much good as I've read about them, frankly I hope not -- not right now anyway.

A local RV Dealer, who actually originally sold this (because his dealership sticker is on the camper) says "we're not Hi-Lo Dealers anymore". I told him I knew that -- as no one is -- they went out of business, but could they tackle this repair? No firm answer on that yet <g>.

So please take a look at the photos. Any sage advice? What do you think is a good course of action? And thanks for your help!

 

[DebW-FRF]

Would this dealer happen to be in Wentzville?? If so this is our experience with them. Our son lived in St.Charles for 8 yrs. At the time we were still using our smaller hi-lo when we went to visit him in St. Charles. We had a minor problem with the hi-lo and thought well we'll just go there since they were hi-lo dealers at the time and had been dealers for several years. They had a fairly large inventory of new and used hi-lo's sitting on the lot and told us to buy one from them and they'd gladly service it otherwise we needed to go elsewhere as they had enough business servicing the ones they had recently sold. Anyway short story is IF YOU didn't buy it from them they didn't want to service it. So needless to say we decided it was probably in our best interest NOT to let them near our hi-lo. Just a FYI in case we are talking about the same place since I noticed your in St. Louis.

 

[davegilbert]

Reply to DebW re: former Hi-Lo Dealer

Well, Ms. DebW, you have hit that one square on the head - yes - the "former" Hi-Lo Dealer (with their decal on our used Hi-Lo) does indeed hail from those environs. Same one. What puzzles me is that a friend recommended them as being straight-forward, which they said (and before I even knew) that our trailer evidently had originally come from them. It seems they may have been blunt to a point of fault with you.

When I told my buddy (who had recommended them) of their initial, less than enthusiastic response (and mentioned their hourly rate!), he said, "Hmmm, well all of our work done thus far has been completed under warranty". At first his recommendation of this dealership was reassuring, as he had recommended them before he (and even I) knew that their decal adorned the side of our camper. I don't necessarily want to write the dealership off, as I'm not sure what our options are in the St. Louis area. However, it does lead me to wonder what I (& my wonderful wife of four decades) have gotten myself/ourselves into!

Thank you so much for your response! BTW, if you haven't been to the St. Charles, Missouri area lately, you won't believe how much it has grown. Unbelievable.

 

[jcurtis95]

Dave Gilbert,

I had to repair my black water outlet pipe last year. It was seeping/leaking right where the pipe is connected to the holding tank when the holding tank became about half full. I went to a local RV dealer/supplier and he recommended a patch kit that was comprised of a fiberglass cloth and a double tube of mix that you had to squeeze out and mix and apply it around the leakage. I was told when I mixed the concoction to not delay before applying it as it was very quick drying. It was indeed and when I applied it, it dried in less than one minute. The patch was very strong and has held up with no more leaks. It actually seems stronger than the original.

Good Luck.

Jerry Curtis
2406 T

 

[RichR]

The type of repair you need can be done by any RV repair shop, it is a generic thing. The wires appear to be for the tank level monitor.

 

[JIM L-HILO]

I have repaired several cracks etc on these tanks over the years. It is not difficult. Buy some fiberglass cloth, a can of MEK, and large can of ABS cement. All of the items can be found at Lowes type stores. MEK and fiberglass cloth in the paint dept and ABS cement in the plumbing dept. Clean the damaged area with the MEK. Cut your cloth to cover the area with about a 1 to 2 " overlap. Spread a good layer of cement over the area, lay the cloth over the area and work the cloth well into the cement. Next cover the cloth with a new layer of cement and smooth. After the cement has dried for a few hours,repeat the process with a second layer of cloth and cement. Cut the second layer of cloth larger than the first. Working the cloth and cement where the pipe joins the tank will take a little work and will be messy. The repair may not be pretty but will be strong. I have never had one of the repairs crack out again. The tanks are ABS material and you have more working time with the ABS cement than with a two part cement. If you need more info get back on the forum.

 

[DebW-FRF]

Dave Gilbert,

We haven't been to St. Charles since 2009. My son worked for the County Health on Boones Lick Rd. We always stayed at Sundermeiers RV while in the area. I really liked the old time shops and restaurants there in the old part. We made several trips a year when he lived there. Which I really do miss. Now he is in Seattle and that's a LONG trip from Nebraska. We've only made that trip twice in our Hi-Lo so far. In regards to your Hi-Lo tank repair problem a regular camper/travel trailer repair shop should be able to take care of that for you. We did make a trip to J&R repair in Ohio for some replacement parts which is also a Hi-Lo repair shop. Very friendly, helpful people. If you need any information on them or the area just private message me. There is quite a few things to do in the area while there and also alot of very nice camping places. I'm sure once you get your repairs taken care of you and your wife will enjoy your Hi-Lo for many years. I know we sure love ours. My wonderful hubby (four decades also) and I are in the process of getting our Hi-Lo ready for a lengthy trip to Texas here in a few weeks. Hopeful someday soon I can be a winter Texan. We both hate the cold weather here in Nebraska although we both have lived here all our lives. We are getting older and would rather be somewhere warmer in the winter months. We also have children and grandchildren here in Nebraska so we're not going to be moving from here.....BUT it sure would be nice to spend a few months in warmer weather. Keep your chin up. Most things can be fixed and I'm sure you'll be up and traveling soon.

 

[sam-HILO]

Repairing black and grey tanks.

We ripped our sewer tank with some sewer in it. I put the 2x4 down a little too early as DH was backing in our storage spot. We go a bobcat guy to level our stones after that. Something like fixing the barn door after the horse gets out. It is very possible and economical to do this repair your self as described by JML in his post. I wouldn't be bothered with the HiLo dealer that gave you "attitude." Any repairs that you need to make can be done with the help of our forum members. Welcome to the forum.

 

[davegilbert]

Thanks, and here is what I've found out thus far

Thanks, and here is what I've found out thus far - which may be beneficial to other members with a similar problem:

1) thus far, local STL repair shops don't want to touch this, unless they replace the entire tank and re-plumb everything. The claim that the expansion/contraction of the tank, both by movement, and by temperature, will eventually make the repair fail. Three shops thus far are just flat not interested in "trying to repair a tank". So you guys seem to be my only hope there;-) Thanks RichR and Sam, but you must have more flexible shops in your neck of the woods!

2) JR in Ohio has been, as everyone has said, extremely nice and friendly. I am awaiting more info from them. Who knows, I may make the trip. If they happen to have the tank in stock, well, they also said they can ship it to me. How would they (and I) know if it's the right tank? Well, they said on some tanks the numbers are molded in. But on many they are written ON the tank with a paint pen. We do indeed have that type of marking. The shops above want all sorts of measurements (Length x Width x Height). Easier said than done, because they also want inlet / outlet diameters, exact specs of where those are, etc. I mean to do this, it seems that you'd have to drop the tanks. And that looks like, for all practical purposes, you'd have to cut and rework the piping in some form or another. Or am I missing something here?

3) As to jcurtis95 (two part mixture) and JimL (MEK, ABS, + fiberglass cloth) -- seems like this may be my only avenue or prayer without getting totally socked financially. So I'll be off now to read about safe ways to "hoist" the Hi-Lo or jack it up. I can't imagine doing this without getting more clearance somehow underneath that thing! BTW, this stuff seems to get good reviews:

Plasti-Mend ABS Plastic Repair Kit for ABS Plastic Holding Tank Repair - Amazon.com

DebW -- we share your sentiments as to why we got into this thing in the first place -- thanks for the pep talk (you, too, Sam!)

 

[jcurtis95]

3) As to jcurtis95 (two part mixture) and JimL (MEK, ABS, + fiberglass cloth) -- seems like this may be my only avenue or prayer without getting totally socked financially. So I'll be off now to read about safe ways to "hoist" the Hi-Lo or jack it up. I can't imagine doing this without getting more clearance somehow underneath that thing! BTW, this stuff seems to get good reviews:

Dave,

Fortunately I was able to do the repair without having to raise the trailer. I had enough clearance so that I just laid something on the concrete to lie on and worked on the tank while lying on my back. From your pictures, it looks like you have some metal damage that may have caused the initial break. The repair material the previous owner used is not at all like what my material looked like. Yours looks gray while the mixture I applied was jet black. I have used the trailer twice and driven several hundred miles and the repair still looks good.

Good luck.

Jerry Curtis 2406 T

 

[retiredcamper47]

Dave

Make yourself a wheel ramp out of 2x8's or 2x10's. Bevel the ends of the boards, cut them different lengths, and stack them 2 or 3 high, depending on how much clearance you need. Make 2 sets and use treated lumber. Just back your trailer on these, chock your wheels, and you are all set. This is what I use.


Bob

 

[davegilbert]

Making Ramps

I like that idea, Bob. . . I'll have to run up to my local Home Depot or Lowe's and research those materials. I'm a big guy (hence the nickname "Big Goome" -- although thankfully not all belly;-) and I'll have to see what kind of clearances I can get. Many thanks for those thoughts. I was looking for commercially made ramps and came up fairly empty. . . .

 

[boater454]

Since these pipes are all in the back you could back your trailer up to a steep drop off and then you could get under the camper safely without any jacking. We stayed at a campgroup that was like this once.

 

[RCREYES]

I like that idea, Bob. . . I'll have to run up to my local Home Depot or Lowe's and research those materials. I'm a big guy (hence the nickname "Big Goome" -- although thankfully not all belly;-) and I'll have to see what kind of clearances I can get. Many thanks for those thoughts. I was looking for commercially made ramps and came up fairly empty. . . .

Try this!

Cowboy tire changer for twin axle horse trailer

 

[davegilbert]

Looking for a steep drop off starting tomorrow!

Tomorrow I'll start looking for a steep drop-off, Boater454. Kind of like that idea. I've repaired a gas tank on an MGB-GT that I had and loved with a slight variation on that. . . and RC, I thought you were setting me up for a redneck kind of joke when I first ventured on to that site! But it's not a bad idea either.

Right now I'm leaning on the idea of getting some wide, 12", outdoor treated lumber, beveling the front, leading, stacked edge -- and screwing it together with carriage bolts or something similar.

Ahh, to the drawing board! Thanks!

 

[C317414]

You don't need to spend extra on treated lumber. I've had a set of wooden ramps I made from regular 2x8 lumber for over 20 years and it is still in great shape.

Raul

 

[RichR]

You don't need to spend extra on treated lumber. I've had a set of wooden ramps I made from regular 2x8 lumber for over 20 years and it is still in great shape.

Raul

I agree! Treated lumber is okay if it will be in contact with the elements all of the time but otherwise it is a waste of money. You even run a good chance of getting a better grade and stronger lumber if it is not treated.

 

[davegilbert]

Untreated lumber it is, then

Off to Lowe's or Home Depot this weekend, if we don't get snow here in STL this weekend (right now there's a chance). I'll report back. Thanks RichR and NortonRider!

 

[davegilbert]

Reporting back on Black + Grey Water Tank Repair

As promised, I'm reporting back, a couple of crazy weather weeks later here in STL (& the Midwest) - so thanks to all (RichR, Sam, & all) for the encouragement to tackle this - with all of your help, I think I have a successful repair in tow;-)

retiredcamper47: I did indeed make a very nice set of ramps - but DARN heavy ones! Made them out of treated wood because it (frankly) was just a buck or two more $$ (per board). Got the highest lift I could out of 'em, using FIVE stacked boards (total of 8"). Made the bottom two planks out of 2 x 12's; then the top three with 2 x 10's. Beveled the leading edge at about a 35 degree bevel (seems my circular saw just didn't want to do a 45 degree bevel. Lumber alone cost about a hundred bucks. Also added two heavy duty garage door handles ($20 for all four) to the sides of each ramp so that they could be more easily lifted and moved around. Really glad I did that, actually. Cut the each board about 7.5 " longer than the other so the trailer could "ramp up".

For safety, I added "BAL 28012 X-Chock Tire Locking Chocks" (approx $75) between the tandem wheels plus traditional angled chocks. I also put two 6-ton jack stands under the trailer and under the frame on the high end of the trailer where I was/am still working. Those were another $55. Thanks for that tip, folks: using the trailer tongue to raise/lower the back or front end works like a charm.

A few other items that may be of interest to all: MEK is darn hard to come by. I guess too many folks were sniffing it. Ugh. No thanks on that -- but I did get a can of it and to say that one needs lots of ventilation while using it is almost an understatement. I believe you may have to search hard for it as well -- there are tons of MEK substitute fluids available, but, well, maybe that would have worked, but I wanted to follow your folks suggestions to a "T".

Wasn't able to do that with just common ABS cement, though! I had to use an "All Purpose Cement" for ABS/PVC pipes. ABS cement has been outlawed (I'm told) in 48 of the 50 states - the remaining two are states that evidently states where RVs and mobile homes are manufactured (said the huge plumbing supply store helper that I visited in STL). It was the Oatey stuff, and that, with a 3M/Bondo fiberglass repair cloth saturated in cement, seemed to work well. I've used three layers of the cloth, all put on in different angles, and put on over a three day period (to allow curing and drying) seems to work very well indeed.

So -- thanks to all! Next up, tackling a rear-view mounted video backup camera -- and replacing the two brake lights (as the license plate one especially got brittle and broke!) Pretty soon, sigh, we'll actually get to go camping!

 

[RichR]

If you are replacing the tail lights consider LED type, they are much more visible than the old fashion ones.