Up-grades fail

[hilltool]

Stopped by dealer a bit ago to see if installation of new 14"wheels and tires was complete. They had mounted 14"s on the curb side to see if there was room and there was so I was just waiting for the other two wheels to come in. Well- they went to mount the other side and when they did they found there was not sufficient clearance on the outside on the driver's side. Apparently, trailer is not mounted symetrically on the frame. Its not off by much- but its off 1/4 inch ( i crawled under and started measuring- ), and they felt the tires would not clear on curb side if the trailer went over a big enough bump to push them into the wheel well. I have to wonder- even if it WAS even on both sides-that would really mean a 1/8 adjustment and I question whether that would be enough room for tires on either side in that instance. At any rate- it is moot because I am not going detach the body from the frame and move it 1/8 inch. I told him to put new 13" radials on it and leave it at that.

I don't know what year HI-LO went to 14" tires and, then, 15s, ....but they must have done something more than just drop the axles a bit. Somehow that wheel well must have altered. Yet- I don't know why, after lowering axles 3 inches, I would not have room for a tire and wheel combination that is, supposedly, just 1 inch larger in diameter.

I'd love to park next to a later model 22' sometime and start measuring to see what is what. Too bad, I was looking forward to it rolling along a bit better.

Oh well..."the best laid plans of mice men", huh?

Rick

 

[JackandJanet]

That's terrible! I'm really disappointed for you. I wonder if I could have put 16" wheels on mine? Possibly not. But, simply going to the next larger tire size on 15" wheels worked just fine for me.

- Jack

 

[Fountain-FRF]

Jack, generally when a wheel goes to 16" it has a different bolt pattern than the smaller 14's and 15's. I'm not saying it wouldn't have worked period, but it probably would not have been successful.

 

[JackandJanet]

Jack, generally when a wheel goes to 16" it has a different bolt pattern than the smaller 14's and 15's. I'm not saying it wouldn't have worked period, but it probably would not have been successful.

The different bolt pattern (6 bolts vs 5 on the 15" wheels) was what stopped me from considering it.

I was just wondering out loud if I had gone to all the trouble to upgrade everything to 16" wheels, if they would have cleared.

It almost sounds to me like the offset on the 14" wheels that Rick had was wrong. At this point, I doubt he's too interested in pursuing this upgrade any further, but ....

- Jack

 

[Fountain-FRF]

Jack, I'm with you, here. I just about crave to crawl up under his trailer with a measuring tape and see for myself.

 

[hilltool]

Well- I'm not totally done. I just decided to quit fretting about it for a couple of days---otherwise I tend to obsess. I cant figure out, I guess, WHY there would not be clearance on the side if the 13s cleared when the trailer is was 3 inches lower. Unless, of course, when you go up in wheel size the thickness of the tire increases (forget what you call that in tire talk). The body of the trailer is definitely set over 1/4 inch- and once I noticed it I started noticing it everywhere----like on the support arms that it rests on in the back...> I do know that another tire dealer i had got a quote from asked me if I was sure there was clearance because going to 14 was going to mean a much larger tire.....but I guess I was thinking just diameter of wheel and tire.

I know I should know this because I see it mentioned all the time.....but what is "offset"? NEVER MIND---I LOOKED IT UP

So, would you not think that the dealer would know enough to order wheels with the appropriate off-set? They are one of the major trailer tire dealers in the area and have been in business for a very long time-----sort of a mom and pop place used to dealing withvintage trailers aside from what they sell new. but thats why I like them. Plus the head mechanic is hobbyist stock car racer-----so he no-doubt understands this stuff. Unless,of course, 14s come with a bit wider width than 13s? I'll measure the clearances tomorrow and post them, though, I agree, there isn't much clearance on the drivers side even with the 13s.

Rick

 

[Fountain-FRF]

For whatever this is worth I just measured the width on all the trailers I have in the play yard. The small boat trailer with 12" tires measures exactly 5" wide, the middle motorcycle/cargo trailer with 13" tires measures 6 1/4 " wide, the large cargo trailer and Hi-Lo with 15" tires measures exactly 8" wide and the large boat trailer with 16" tires measures 10" wide. (Momma said no more toys, no more trailers, so we don't have any 14") Hill, none of us doubt you, it is just that we would like to actually SEE and put our hands on the problem. Thanks for keeping up with this.

 

[Garry-HILO]

In 2011 we were in Fairbanks and I had the tires on our 1999 21T Tow Lite replaced for the drive back to Southern CA. I did not observe the tech putting the tires on the left side of the trailer, but as he was installing on the door side, he could not get the new tires on when they were inflated. He had to deflate the tires to get them on, then inflate. I didn't think too much about it at the time, other than I would be in a fix if I had a flat or blowout. And the new tires were the same size as the old. Last year we lost the trailer in a fire and I later threw away all the paperwork on repairs, etc., so I have no idea what size of tires were on the trailer. I do know our 2005 27T came equipped with 15" tires, per the original manufacturer's suggested retail price that was included when we got the trailer this January.

 

[hilltool]

went back over to install batteries today and do some measuring.

Here goes: Drivers side from frame to inside of wheel well=10 11/16
curb side frame to inside of wheel well = 10 15/16

Drivers side- outside sidewall at thickest point to inside of wheel well= 3/4"
Curb side- outside of sidewall at thickest point to inside of wheel well= 1 1/16"

best I can tell the thickest part of tire from sidewall to sidewall is 7". Tread was closer to five inches wide.

Tires (current) are ST175/80D13

I just hope new radials don't add much width. It is what it is at this point. I didn't ask them about off-set or width of new tires-but if increased height means some added width---there isn't much wiggle room (literally).In addition, there are some serious cracks on the front and rear cap from the cold this winter. I can epoxy them to hold it together but it isn't going to look pretty.

Rick

 

[JackandJanet]

I don't know what brand you have, but I just did a search using your tire size. The Greenball brand has a 6.8" sidewall width, so your measurement was just a little generous. And, there's no weight on the tire at the top, so it should not be wider than that.

Radial tires run a bit cooler than bias ply if they are inflated properly. I'd stick with radials if possible.

- Jack

 

[hilltool]

I actually feel mildly validated by that information. I took the measurement with a tape measure while lying on my back and holding a straight edge off the inside sidewall and then eyeballing the tape ( I was out of hands to hold another straight edge ). So- though these things are critical given the situation I have encountered----getting within .2 on eyeballing a chinese made tape measure while sighting from a dubious angle on my back....thats not bad.

I have asked him to put radials on and lose the bias plys that are on there....I just hope, as I said, there are no more gremlins hiding. I'll keep all posted on this-----I'm going to search 14s on the net and see what widths I come up with. Next task.....re-doing my whole hitch set-up on the WDH and ball as the TITAN is set up so high in back. Raised it last year on the f150 after adding spacers but, now, I've got to flip it over and lower the whole thing about 4 inches.

Rick

 

[hilltool]

So-

Quick look on etrailer turned up 205s and 215s on a 14 inch tire but no 175s. On THOSE 14s the section width was 8.0 and 8.1 respectively. Thus- on the one side where I had 1 1/16 from sidewall to inside of wheel well and, if they were close to 7 ( I found a 175 13 on etrailer that was 7) then an inch wider would have left some room depending on offset, I presume. But, not so much on the other. At any rate- there is not much room to mess with , here, so 13s it is going to be unless somebody finds a more obvious solution. Still- if anybody with 14s or 15s is ever climbing around under their trailer and wants to measure from frame to inside of wheel well i would sure be curious to know. Maybe type of axle and how far out the hub is from the frame is also a factor. maybe I will call JR sometime and see if they have any insight.

Rick