What the..... (2008 22t)

[motobuffy]

New to the Hi-Lo community, but not to campers. February purchase; all components functional at delivery. Brought it home, stuck it in the barn, and waited for warmer weather to get familiar with it. Started to play with it, but the "new" battery was dead. Figured I left something on, so I put the charger on it after lifting it manually. Checked the manual and made sure all the controls were in the off position. Battery was down significantly one week later. Spent more time with the manual and was going to pull some fuses to see if I could isolate the troublesome circuit, in particular, the gas sniffer. I have had problems with battery drainage in other campers, thanks to them. Started with the panel and its different than the owners manual picture and the fuses aren't marked as to what they control. Fewer active circuits (6, not 9 as per the manual , but more fuse positions available). Figured what controlled what. The gas sniffer was not fused. Went to the 3 position switch at the lift controller and flipped it to the 2 "off" positions to see if that shut off the sniffer. No luck. Then I noticed the lights still worked in the "off" positions as well. Lift works as per owners manual.

Makes me wonder if
1) Hi-Lo would routinely switch components without updating the manual.
2) Someone switched out the panel after the sale.
3) Switch wiring issue or replacement with an incorrect switch.

My questions are :
1) Have you found the manual to accurately reflect the reality of your trailer?
2) Do you have any suggestions as to how to trouble shoot my problems without getting deeply into the circuitry? I'm not an electrician.
3) What do you think about a quick disconnect switch at the positive terminal of the battery to easily solve this problem?

 

[RCREYES]

New to the Hi-Lo community, but not to campers. February purchase; all components functional at delivery. Brought it home, stuck it in the barn, and waited for warmer weather to get familiar with it. Started to play with it, but the "new" battery was dead. Figured I left something on, so I put the charger on it after lifting it manually. Checked the manual and made sure all the controls were in the off position. Battery was down significantly one week later. Spent more time with the manual and was going to pull some fuses to see if I could isolate the troublesome circuit, in particular, the gas sniffer. I have had problems with battery drainage in other campers, thanks to them. Started with the panel and its different than the owners manual picture and the fuses aren't marked as to what they control. Fewer active circuits (6, not 9 as per the manual , but more fuse positions available). Figured what controlled what. The gas sniffer was not fused. Went to the 3 position switch at the lift controller and flipped it to the 2 "off" positions to see if that shut off the sniffer. No luck. Then I noticed the lights still worked in the "off" positions as well. Lift works as per owners manual.

Makes me wonder if
1) Hi-Lo would routinely switch components without updating the manual.
2) Someone switched out the panel after the sale.
3) Switch wiring issue or replacement with an incorrect switch.

My questions are :
1) Have you found the manual to accurately reflect the reality of your trailer?
2) Do you have any suggestions as to how to trouble shoot my problems without getting deeply into the circuitry? I'm not an electrician.
3) What do you think about a quick disconnect switch at the positive terminal of the battery to easily solve this problem?

1) The manuals are pretty generic between year models so there may be some inaccuracies.
2)Troubleshooting shouldn't be too deep. There really isn't a whole lot to it.
3) Several of the members on the forum use some kind of disconnect switch or a battery tender (trickle charger).

Check the position of your three way rocker main switch. Make sure that it's in the center position while the trailer is not in use. Hope that's enough info to get you started.

 

[RichR]

Did you put the main power switch in the center position? That is all off including the gas detector. The only thing that doesn't go through it is the fridge, and if it is switched off there should be nothing drawing from the battery. I'm repeating RCEYES here, I see. The up postion should allow everything to operate inside, the down position should only allow the lift system to work.

 

[Wrascal]

"The up postion should allow everything to operate inside, the down position should only allow the lift system to work."

Unless it's like mine. When my master switch is toggled UP I can raise/lower the top. Center position is power disabled. DOWN position allows power to the cabin.

Just a different orientation.

 

[RichR]

"The up postion should allow everything to operate inside, the down position should only allow the lift system to work."

Unless it's like mine. When my master switch is toggled UP I can raise/lower the top. Center position is power disabled. DOWN position allows power to the cabin.

Just a different orientation.

Yes, that's right for whatever reason. But, unless the switch was replaced with the wrong thing, the center position should be "all" off.
We need a report from Motobuffy.

 

[motobuffy]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Main power switch (3 position switch/ lift enabling switch/etc)

upper position - should be power to all except lift. Actual is the same.

middle position- should be power to refrigerator only. Actually the lights, the heater and water pump work as well. Manual doesn't mention the gas detector specifically, but I think it should be off. It is not. Lift is not active. I have not verified any other 12v appliances, as there is no water in the camper and the refrigerator can be cut off with its own switch.

lower position- should have power to lift and refrigerator only. Lift is active, as it should be. Lights, gas detector, heater, and pump are active. Again, I did not verify any other appliances.

In summation, it appears there is no effective main cutoff switch position for the 12 volt system, with the exception of the lift circuit.

 

[RichR]

That should not be! The middle position should provide nothing to anywhere. The should only be three wires hooked to the master switch. One from the battery power to the center terminal. One with a fuse for the lift on the lower terminal, it should go to the lift switch. And the last one for the power to the twelve volt fuse block, I think it is red. The fridge power, blue wire, goes straight from it toward the battery with an inline fuse. No connection with the master switch.

 

[RichR]

Get under the dinette seat and pull the cover off and look down at the back of the switch. Make sure there isn't something in there shorting across the terminals. See what wires there are and report back.

 

[JackandJanet]

This may not apply to you, but we bought our trailer new in 2007 and it had a TV/DVD/CD/Radio installed (at the factory). That thing had an inline fuse, but it DID NOT run through the 3-position master switch. As a result, it was always drawing a fairly small, but steady amount of power, even when turned off. It would drain the battery in about 3-4 weeks.

I located the 12V power line to it and installed a simple on-off switch in it. Now I have no battery drain at all when everything in the trailer is off.

You might find something similar. I located my problem by pulling all the fuses and testing inline with an Ammeter.

- Jack

 

[motobuffy]

RichR,
Thanks for the switch lesson. Will take a look tomorrow.

JackandJanet,
Got the radio as well. Will disconnect it to see if the battery continues to drop.

 

[JackandJanet]

RichR,
Thanks for the switch lesson. Will take a look tomorrow.

JackandJanet,
Got the radio as well. Will disconnect it to see if the battery continues to drop.

If you have a simple multimeter, disconnect your ground wire at the battery, then reconnect it by attaching the positive lead of the ammeter to the cable end and the negative lead of the ammeter to the negative battery post. Have your ammeter on the highest setting at first (mine has a 10 Amp setting). Then, try it on something lower (mine has 2 Amps and down).

If you see a reading, something is pulling that current. If you then disconnect your radio and the reading drops to zero, you've found your problem.

If you don't have a multimeter, it's a good investment. You can get acceptable ones in the $30-40 price range (try an auto parts store or a home improvement store). I have one that lives in my HiLo.

- Jack

 

[C317414]

Are you sure that the battery is ok? It may not be holding a charge. Try charging it and disconnecting it for a couple of days. See if it has enough power after this.

 

[RichR]

Are you sure that the battery is ok? It may not be holding a charge. Try charging it and disconnecting it for a couple of days. See if it has enough power after this.

That would be a good idea along with checking with an ammeter before you start tearing things apart. New batteries can go bad and if it was drained to zero it could be ruined.

 

[motobuffy]

Looks like someone has been playing with the main switch wiring.

switch is a 6 terminal switch, as I believe it should be.

top position (from back of switch) - white wire to middle position of lift switch, other terminal is blank.

middle position - 2 red wires with black tracers both leading to a 10 gauge red wire. this wire exits through the camper floor inside a plastic tube and eventually leads back to the battery through a terminal block above the lift motor.

lower position - 2 black wires both leading to a 2nd 10 gauge red wire that also exits under the floor and goes into the camper wall in the right front corner. I assume it eventually reaches the fuse panel.

Unfortunately, this seems to match what the wiring diagram shows, although it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't see how having a switch does anything for the 2 lower positions as both sides of the switch lead to the same wire; the lower 2 to the load and the middle 2 to the power source.

Seems to me, to make things work as intended, the following changes are needed.

1) unplug both leads to the middle and lower positions.
2) tape or remove 1 of the black leads and 1 of the red/black tracer leads.
3) install the remaining black and red/black tracer leads to the lower position.

What I don't understand is how the unit is getting power to the fuse box now, unless there were/are other changes made to power the fuse box. But, as stated before, I'm not an electrician. Also, I'm suspicious about the matching black and red/black tracer wires. Why would a 10 gauge wire be run 99% of the way to the switch and not 100%? If the current requires 10 gauge, why the 16ish gauge at the end to risk overheating? This makes me think someone has been messing around.

Waiting for your thoughts before I start changing the switch wiring.

As for multi meters and continuity testers, I do have them. Unfortunately, they are 5 hours away.

Thanks for your help!

 

[JackandJanet]

A very short length of smaller wire doesn't add too much resistance to a circuit. It's possible that 10 Ga would not attach well to the switch? I'm just guessing here, you understand.

I've never taken my master switch out, so I can't comment on its wiring. But, the switch itself does not look like it supports a very heavy current flow. You probably DO need to get your continuity tester to check how the switch is wired internally.

- Jack

 

[RichR]

Study the photos posted by Norton Rider when he replaced the fuse with a breaker to see if your wiring looks anything like them.
http://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f28/raise-lower-switch-replacement-fuse-cb-3618/

 

[PopRichie77]

Just looked at my 2209, here is the way it is wired. Positive from the battery comes in thru a heavy red wire which is then reduced to 2 smaller wires, each of these are connected to the master switch 2 center terminals. There is 2 small wires connected to the bottom 2 terminals and these are connected to a heavy red wire that goes to the fuse panel. 1 top terminal is connected to a wire that goes to the up and down switch.
I didn't check wire sizes, These master switches typically work this way when the top is pushed in the middle 2 terminals are connected to the bottom 2 terminals completing the circuit and supplying positive voltage to the fuse box. when the bottom is pushed in the middle 2 terminals are connected to the top 2 terminals, only 1 top terminal is used to supply positive to the up down switch.
Hope this helps, wire colors may not be the same.

 

[RichR]

Just looked at my 2209, here is the way it is wired. Positive from the battery comes in thru a heavy red wire which is then reduced to 2 smaller wires, each of these are connected to the master switch 2 center terminals. There is 2 small wires connected to the bottom 2 terminals and these are connected to a heavy red wire that goes to the fuse panel. 1 top terminal is connected to a wire that goes to the up and down switch.
I didn't check wire sizes, These master switches typically work this way when the top is pushed in the middle 2 terminals are connected to the bottom 2 terminals completing the circuit and supplying positive voltage to the fuse box. when the bottom is pushed in the middle 2 terminals are connected to the top 2 terminals, only 1 top terminal is used to supply positive to the up down switch.
Hope this helps, wire colors may not be the same.

I agree with that. And I think Motobuffy's explanation is wired like that. I think the wires are split so both sides of the switch shares the load to the fuse bank.

 

[PopRichie77]

I agree with that. And I think Motobuffy's explanation is wired like that. I think the wires are split so both sides of the switch shares the load to the fuse bank.

Yes, I forgot to add that, both sides of the switch share the load this the reason for the smaller wires.
Also center position is off no power supplied to top or bottom terminals.

 

[RichR]

They could have used a heavier duty single pole double throw(SPST) switch to do the job but chose to use a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch maybe because it was cheaper and/or a single pole switch of that type did not have sufficient load capacity to carry the 30 amp load. There is really nothing wrong with doing it that way.

If the switch is wired up correctly and it is working okay ??? there must be problems elsewhere. Make sure the two reds and the two blacks are attached to the right switch terminals and are not crossed. I suspect the problem at the switch unless someone rewired something elsewhere.