We just returned from a short 2-week trip and have discovered that our ceiling has developed a lot of wrinkles and some soft spots above the door and dining table (inside upper cabinets). I've thoroughly read this thread and am at a loss as to the cause since the trailer is covered while in storage. I'm very discouraged by what I've read here. Should I cut the ceiling paper to see what the damage is? Determining the cause seems to be a difficult task. It seems to have started in that upper cabinet, as the paper had a slight ripple when we bought it (used) 3 years ago, and was thought to have just been a lousy papering job by HiLo. Not too happy with the Hi-Lo dealer right now (as well as myself) for not realizing or disclosing the obvious start of a problem.

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2007 22TB HiLo
2014 Toyota Tundra

Truly Oregon,

If you have not read all my posts or those of garyk52, I would advise you do so to determine a course of action. Since you have a 2207T and ours is a 2406T, I would suspect that you have an aluminum roof and may be the victim of the same problems I had. Do a thorough inspection of your roof and look for little to fairly large deteriorations which will appear as black discolorations. You may have to wash the roof before they are apparent; do not use a power washer and if you can do this just using a moist cloth or clean mop it would be better than washing the roof down furthering additional damage if what I suspect bears out. When/if you find those little deteriorations, you will see that it is due to electrolysis, causing metal fatigue when two dis-similar metals are touching. In many of the spots, when you run a finger over it, you may even feel a sharp pointed protrusion of the nail/screw.

If this is the case, you must decide what action to take. If you want to try and repair it, look at the steps taken by me or garyk and decide if this is the method you will use. I took pictures and tried to give step-by-step instructions as did garyk. I experienced the ceiling deterioration as well and by the time I had finished the exterior repairs, the interior began to 'wrinkle' and erupt. I will have to address replacing a couple of interior panels.

Since we had taken out a separate policy on the Hi Lo, I made a report to my insurance agent when I discovered the roof deterioration and she advised me to turn in a claim. I told her that I felt this was a pre-existing condition and I would handle the exterior repairs. She told me that if it gets the interior section, to let her know since at that time there was no interior damage. I will contact them when it gets cooler to see if they will cover the interior repairs.

You may contact me by PM if you like and I will give you my phone number if you want to discuss with me.

Good Luck,

Jerry Curtis
Fredericksburg, TX

Jerry,
This is what I like about the HTF, another camper going out of his way to help another with an issue.
Thanks Jerry.

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PappaP
Former Owner of a 1999 Classic HiLo Model 29B

Thanks, Jerry for the info. I'll be attacking it this weekend, and fortunately we are having sunny dry weather. I'll also contact the insurance as well as the extended warranty people; we transferred the warranty when we bought it. I'll definitely reread all the posts as well. HTF is truly great.

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2007 22TB HiLo
2014 Toyota Tundra

Just a thought,Maybe you shouldn't rip the HiLo apart until you have an insurance adjuster look at it. If the insurance will pay then I would have the ins. pay to have the trailer transported to JR repair in Butler,Ohio. JR has the equipment and expertise to laminate roofs,laminate walls. All the work would carry a one yr. warranty. I really feel for your problems. We had to rebuild the walls in our 1990 HiLo Classic. Last saturday we spent 8hrs. cleaning and patching our rubber roof. It has been plenty sunny and hot so hopefully the patch will be good and baked on. A little bit of rain is in the forecast. We are 7inches below our normal rainfall. Let us know what happens with your ins. claim.

Another question, Jerry, after reading your posts. Have you done anything regarding the ceiling ripples? Ours have expanded toward the front and I'm envisioning having to take down the dining cabinets and removing the wallpaper layer to see what damage there is below the roof. When I checked the roof, there were sections above the damage with what looked to be black soot-like substance over the rippled area, and it seems to be spreading mostly toward the front.
FYI, I had to have the end cap replaced two years ago as it cracked right down the middle through the bathroom window. When the dealer replaced it, they left a gap between the roof and cap. Not knowing if there was any sealant in there, I used the EternaBond tape and added a thin line of sealant to the leading edge of the tape. It's incredible tape. I'd like to know where you got the tape for a good price as I think I'm going to need it; you can e-mail me at indymac15@gmail.com.
Your pictures and step-by-step data were great; you were fortunate to have a covered area large enough for the HiLo.

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2007 22TB HiLo
2014 Toyota Tundra

I realize you have a towlite and I have a 90 25ft Classic. At present I have some soft interior ceiling due to my rubber roof tearing on the exterior where the roof turns to go down the exterior side. Last saturday we spent eight hours applying a long rubber patch exterior. My 90 HiLo Classic wall build is documented under off topic. 1990 Restoration. You will have to remove cabinents and tear out wall paper and possibly wall board. The keys to being sucessful are coating your fiberglass interior with 3m bondo. Caulk the daylights out of everything with Lexell caulk and use expanding foam where needed. You will have to do quite a bit of bracing with 2x4 to support interior what you have ripped out. My guess is that the black that you are seeing is mold. Use a respirator(industrial ) when youare tearing out. If I can be of any assistance to you please ask or send me a pm. Do you have the time and expertise(handy skills) to do this job? This is major,major repair between the walls and the roof.

Thanks for the input, Sam. This is all so disheartening. We so loved our 1985/6 HiLo and were thrilled to find this 2007 that was supposedly "like new," used only once or twice, and only two years old. Now, from what everyone is saying, it's a disaster. Don't know who to be more upset with, myself for being naive or the dealer's salesman for not disclosing what should have been to them an obvious problem.
As I discover more and more of what's involved, it may appear to be way beyond what I want to deal with at this time. I could do the work but don't know if I really want to tackle something that extensive while babysitting two grandkids. This requires some serious thought. Thanks for everyone's help.

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2007 22TB HiLo
2014 Toyota Tundra

Ceiling panels
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Another question, Jerry, after reading your posts. Have you done anything regarding the ceiling ripples? Ours have expanded toward the front and I'm envisioning having to take down the dining cabinets and removing the wallpaper layer to see what damage there is below the roof. When I checked the roof, there were sections above the damage with what looked to be black soot-like substance over the rippled area, and it seems to be spreading mostly toward the front.
FYI, I had to have the end cap replaced two years ago as it cracked right down the middle through the bathroom window. When the dealer replaced it, they left a gap between the roof and cap. Not knowing if there was any sealant in there, I used the EternaBond tape and added a thin line of sealant to the leading edge of the tape. It's incredible tape. I'd like to know where you got the tape for a good price as I think I'm going to need it; you can e-mail me at indymac15@gmail.com.
Your pictures and step-by-step data were great; you were fortunate to have a covered area large enough for the HiLo.
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2007 22TB HiLo
2010 Toyota Tacoma

Truly,

I apologize for not responding sooner. I started two nights ago and unfortunately, our elderly houseguest came in while I was working on it and I broke a longstanding practice I have, that of copying the response and pasting it to a new email for later use. Instead I ended up exiting the browser and naturally I lost everything I had written so I will start anew.

I did try an idea I had regarding the ripples. I noticed the ripples had begun to really appear after I had finished my roof repairs so I had a bright idea. I got my wife’s iron and placed a cloth over the ripples and some of them were completely removed while others were greatly reduced. My thought was that the water had caused the adhesive in the paper to turn loose from the 1/4” plywood and the heat from the iron would make it more liquid and I thought it would re-adhere to the plywood. Since I have it stored outside and under an RV cover, I lowered it and replaced the cover. A few weeks later when I raised it, the ripples were back and had actually increased. I think if you catch it soon enough, you might be able to use a syringe to inject fresh adhesive and then iron it on, it might hold. I am afraid now that I will have to find some ceiling tiles and replace two sections.

Regarding the sooty looking substance on your roof, mine was like that as well. Did you find any pinholes or signs of metal ‘rot’ anywhere in the black area? I feel that you have the same problem I had. You might try using steel wool and knock some of the sooty substance off and see if you have anything like the two pictures I am attaching. There was a section of the roof on the driver side that was approximately12 feet long and 18” wide that had a total of [45] holes that were caused by electrolysis/metal fatigue. Each had to be covered with eterna bond tape.

The ensuing problems with the ceiling were due to the time factor from when it first began until I first was aware there was a problem. I had just bought the trailer and discovered these holes a few months later. The thin plywood, after being subjected to the summer heat, just simply got worse and basically busted loose. On the inside of the cabinet over the tip out, I originally had to punch holes in a sagging ceiling to allow the water to drain from the sagging ceiling. I have posts somewhere on the forum to show what it looked like. When it dried out, I basically had to remove the rotten plywood and I filled it with a thin Styrofoam sheet and caulked it. The ceiling outside of the cabinet gradually began to show those telltale wrinkles that I am hopeful the insurance will pay for replacing [2] 4x8 foot panels. All the wrinkles were right along and underneath the pinholes I found on the roof and have subsequently repaired. The summer heat did the rest. I feel certain that though I have fixed the roof, I will have to remove either the entire sections of the ceiling tiles or cut out the bad sections and patch them.

I also have [2] cracks, one each in the front and rear end caps [they are shown on another post]. Your model and mine are some of the units they substituted a plastic cap in place of a fiberglass cap; a cost cutting decision that the owner will have to live with. I have tried to repair the cracks with no luck. When it cools off, I am going to either use the eternabond tape or an aluminum adhesive tape to cover the splits and overlapping enough area so that it will appear balanced and somewhat normal. I will then paint it and apply a couple of decals of the US Flag, or Football banner or something.

All these problems have been experienced by several Hi Lo owners and is a reflection of bad management decisions and poor quality workmanship.

I hope this information will be of some help to you.

Good Luck,

Jerry Curtis
2406 T

Attached Images

	Damage or Deterioration.jpg (80.2 KB, 67 views)
	Directly over interior leak.jpg (77.5 KB, 60 views)

Thanks for the update on your roof repairs. JR has proposed putting a aluminum roof on our HiLo. We now have a rubber roof. I don't think an alum. roof is the way to go because of all the problems with yours. He stated HiLo used a rubber roof for two years and had nothing but problems. Huh,our roof lasted 21 yrs. We did a huge 20 ft patch and I need to get over to our hi lo and see how it held up after our rain on Sunday. First good rain all summer. It is good we are willing to doccument our repairs to help others.

Thanks again for your input, Jerry. I decided to tackle the job while the days are sunny and hot here in southern ORegon. I took everything that's been said here in consideration and decided to EternaBond the crap and coat the roof with an elastomeric paint. Sunglasses were definitely a necessity.
Now, in looking at your pictures, which I appreciate, our black dust was, I believe, just dust that became attracted to the roof. It actually blew right off with no effort. I have yet to see any pin holes but that's not to say that they're not there, just that I couldn't detect them. But with the tape and paint, I think I have it covered well enough to prevent any problems. The paint has a 12 year guarantee, and since I have the trailer covered for most of the year's rainy season, I'm hoping it'll be good for even more.
As for the interior, you've given me some ideas to tackle the ripples. I'll give them a try this week before taking it back to storage.
End caps? Yeah, my rear cap cracked right down the middle six months after we bought it. Insurance wouldn't cover it (normal wear and tear) so I had the HiLo dealer replace it. Fortunately they got a cap right before the company pulled the plug. Since they're made out of PVC, I bought some high tech PVC cement which I keep on hand while traveling, along with EternaBond tape (I used Duct Tape to keep the parts together when it cracked; did a fine job of keeping it together and the rain out). I figure if I see a crack develop again, I'll cement it and apply the tape. I don't know how much stress is on the caps and how strong the cement will be but I figure it'll be worth a try, especially if I'm on the road.
I'll continue reporting the results here.

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2007 22TB HiLo
2014 Toyota Tundra

TrulyOregon,

Sounds like a plan to me. I might suggest that the next time you are in WalMart or hardware store to check out their adhesive backed aluminum tape. Our HiLo developed a crack in the rear cap last winter when we were in Oklahoma and I bought a roll of that tape and applied it. Later when I attempted regular repairs [which failed on two attempts] and had to scrape it off, I saw that it was an excellant sealant and was very difficult to remove.

I had given some thought to using the PVC Cement to see if it would work but tried some other recommended sealants instead. My thought was the cement works real well on pipe joints but on split gaps it might be a different story. There are some smaller cracks on the top where the cap is screwed into the roof deck that might have worked but I decided to use a good caulk and cover them with eterna-bond. One thing, if you discover the small cracks beginning on the top at the screw holes, be sure and use a tiny drill bit and drill a hole where the crack stops to prevent it from spreading before you caulk it and cover it with the tape.

If you are going to try to 'iron' out the wrinkles, if you can figure out a way to inject a good glue into the wrinkle, I think you might have a shot at success. Otherwise, I believe once the water has been introduced, it causes the old glue to turn loose and my experience with ironing them out failed. The area I removed inside the cabinet had deteriorated to the point that nothing would have removed the wrinkles. I had to remove about 3" or 4" from along the wall before I ran into good wood. I'm wondering if anyone in the forum has tried using contact paper [like what the wives use on cabinet shelves] to cover affected areas? That would entail painting the entire ceiling to cover the obvious repair but that wouldn't be too difficult to do. Whatever you come up with, please post on the forum with pictures.

Good Luck,

Jerry Curtis
2406T

I used contact paper to repair our interior door rebuild. It is a litle hard to put in place without getting wrinkles. You have to peel back the cover on it and press the paper in place at the same time. Didn't come out perfect. The other day I was in value home center and they had some lovely vinyl wallpaper on the reduced. $2.50 a roll. Nice designs that you could use as is or prime and paint over. Read another trailer repair story and they used multiple coats of primmer to cover old wallpaper and then they painted.

I was thinking that we could cover our entire exterior roof with externa bond tape and then recoat with Kool seal primmer and then Kool seal paint. Doesn't bother me how this would look. We are predicted to get some rain this afternoon from the remnants of Issac. Our extensive patching has had a good "bake in the sun". We are nearly nine inches below our normal rainfall. Yesterday,we were out doing yard work. Didn't realize it was 90 degrees. All the dust gave both of allergy symptoms. Drank galons of ice water and the symptoms went away. Dh thinks our long wide rubber roof patch is enough to correct the problem. I should take some pictures of the interior dammage and post. Won't be today as the truck is in the garage for NYS inspection. What do you think? Hard to tackle this problem when we have a difference of opinion.

Sam,

Ours is a metal roof so I can't offer any advice on using eterna-bond on your rubber roof. When I was shopping for tape I didn't notice if they had a tape specifically for a rubber roof. Quite honestly, I was impressed with the adhesive backed aluminum tape. It really sticks fast and paints easily. I did use some in some small spots on my roof and it looks good. It was a little expensive but probably not any more than the etera-bond tape.

Jerry Curtis
2406T

I washed our 2408T yesterday for the first time. The roof was very clean, since the trailer has always been under cover. As I was scrubbing, I noticed a few areas where the roof paint was a bit rougher than in other areas. These were generally circular areas, ranging from 1-2" diameter. It certainly appears these are the early signs of galvanic corrosion, as described above. I imagine that at some point the aluminum will corrode through in these areas.

Raul