Is this normal? Front raises just higher than the rear

[RCREYES]

This is what I am using to prevent the infamous avalanche
Camco Mfg Inc - Stack-a-Plate - Kitchen Gadgets - Camping World

 

[DebW-FRF]

We also use the plastic shoe boxes inside in the cabinets and outside in the storage pods. They keep everything nice and dry. We have alot of humidity in the summer so I also store my crackers in them keeps them fresh also. So many uses for the plastic shoe boxes.

 

[JMDoering]

RC,

We just installed two of these Stack-a-Plate brackets in an awkward spot in one of our cupboards. They really worked out well on our camping trip weekend before last!

Jim

 

[cptmoney]

OK - We're in.

Brought her home today.

She's going to need a lotta lovin' - but I think it's still a win for us.

Here's the deal with the cables: all cables look to be good/solid, didn't see any rust/frayed spots. However, the rear of the trailer needs to come up near 2". Can't even lift the A/C cord access cover, as it hits the wood trim on the top of the bottom half.

That's going to be my first priority.

Next: the wallpaper on one end of the couch (the right end, as you're standing in the trailer looking at the tongue) is catching and tearing/peeling. Any ideas? A hidden screw sticking out? Just searching here...

 

[cptmoney]

OK - after a few hours of trial and error, I believe that my top raises/lowers relatively close to level.

Not 100% sure it's where I would call perfect, but MUCH better than before.

My left front corner (as you're sitting in the trailer facing the tongue) seems to be coming up too high. I've given that cable all sorts of slack, but it's still coming up higher than all other corners. Any ideas?

Here's the real stumper: after adjusting the cables, here's what my adjusting nuts look like:

Is ANY part of this normal? How can they be sticking out that far? Do I need to cut the ends off of the two rear adjusting nuts? Look at those things! They're bound to hit the rear tire if the suspension comes up, right?

I expected my rear cables to need the lion's share of the adjustment, as it was the rear that wasn't raising up to where it should be - but this looks a bit much to me. Can the cables stretch to the point where they need replacing, even though there are no "bad" spots in the cables? These rear cables are almost out of adjustment room.

Does anyone else have this on their Hi Lo?

Looking for some help on this one...

 

[cptmoney]

Sorry for the sketchy pics; they're straight from my cell phone...

 

[PopRichie77]

Have you checked the rear cable pulleys for broken or damage? The cables may be stretched or they may have been replaced and made to long. At the rear cable anchor points on the top half the cables may have crushed into the bottom edge of the top half. Normally the adjusters won't hit the tire, but if it makes you feel more comfortable cut some off. The angle of your pics make it look like they will hit the tire and since I am not there and can't see it for my self, cut some off. Check the other things before cutting.

 

[JackandJanet]

I've talked about the way a cable can crush into the bottom edge of the top half in another thread - it happened to mine when I tried to lift one corner of the top too high. DO look for that. It's obvious when you look for it if it happened, and has the same effect as stretching the cable.

I suspect driving with the top up could cause this condition to happen too.

- Jack

 

[sting32]

He's got the stove covers; just took them off for travel/cleaning.

Hey Sting32 - tell me more about the cables stretching. How much do they stretch? When do they need replaced? How much of a chore is it to replace them? I"m sure it's not easy...I'm hoping that it's simply an adjustment, not replacement. How can I tell?

I don't even want to imagine breaking one of the cables, esp with one of my kids inside - that would kill a person. Yikes.

Anyone ever have the cables break on them? I know that as long as it's fully lifted, the safety latch theoretically takes that possibility out of the picture - but has it ever happened?

Definitely do NOT want to be addressing that side of the story...

I hate to start scaring people, but the lift catch only prevents the Hydraulic system failure, if all 4 cables broke at once, the top will fall down to folded position immediately.

Most times one cable fails at a time.

My camper is 30ft long, the hydraulics are in the rear, the front cables are probably 10ft or maybe double as long than the rear ones. if you give theoretical stretch over time of say 1% on 30ft cables (360 inches), that would be about 3.5 inches in I dont know how many years it took... in the shorter cables, (say 15-20ft) same 1% is only 1.8 to 2.4 inches. I am assuming there is a little bit of stretch over time... so yeah, my front was lower than my back when I got mine which was built in 95...

***plus any wear and strain on plastic pulleys***
there are at least 3 pulleys per cable If I recall correctly, that can you know, wear "in" I guess. I had a cable break because my 1st attempt at tensioning the cables was not as described below, and I tightened too much on one cable, plus if you go too far with one like front, it adversly affects the rear.

I had to tighen my front cables by about 2 inches, to the fronts. the cables goto the frame, and have long bolts for adjusting, I let mine down, took about 1/2 inch on the bolts, then raised the camper, checked then repeat until I liked the levels... This is very important IMHO, to do little bits, then run up and down a few times!!

Anyway, my cables might be closer to failing than maybe others are, the roof is huge and heavy enough on a 5th wheel version, so I block mine up in storage all the time unless I want to leave it down, when blocked, I let off the cables (let down onto wood). I only decided to block at anytime it is up when not camping, because I can only assume cable stretched, I have inspected all pulley areas, and where cables mount to roof to explain the slack, and I can see no evidence to suggest that it was not simply cables getting older and or stretching (ever so slightly)over time? So my theory is the cables will not have to support the loads of the roof except when actually camping, which is usually 2-3 days a month.

Your mileage and reasoning may vary...

 

[cptmoney]

I've talked about the way a cable can crush into the bottom edge of the top half in another thread - it happened to mine when I tried to lift one corner of the top too high. DO look for that. It's obvious when you look for it if it happened, and has the same effect as stretching the cable.

I suspect driving with the top up could cause this condition to happen too.

- Jack

What's the fix on this?

Simply cable replacement? Wouldn't the new cable just fall into the cut made by the older cable?

I may be dealing with this; my front was raising much higher than the back, before adjustment.

 

[cptmoney]

I hate to start scaring people, but the lift catch only prevents the Hydraulic system failure, if all 4 cables broke at once, the top will fall down to folded position immediately.

So the catch is for hydraulic only? Is that enough?

So - do you block it when you're camping? Or do you trust your cables enough?

I'm thinking that maybe I should just replace them, for the peace of mind if nothing else.

I did make the adjustments in small increments, and ran it up and down a few times in the process (maybe 8 - 10 times)...but I anticipate it will still need to shake itself out in the next few raisings/lowerings.

Also - regarding the adjustment - after I'd made my adjustments, I noticed that it took a bit longer to hear the safety bar "latch". Part of that I'm attributing to my hydraulic pump being low on fluid - but perhaps part of it is the top going too far up. According to my meager assessment, it's not going quite far enough up just yet, but it's really, really close.

 

[MEBradley]

safety bar

When I had my 17ft unit at Stahmann RV in New Braunfels a couple of weeks ago, they told me to raise my unit all the way up (little after you hear the safety bar catch) and then back it down onto the safety bar to take weight off the cables. Have any of you ever heard that recommendation? Made me think that the safety bar is holding the weight of the top.

 

[cptmoney]

Great question, MEBradley. I'm wondering the same thing...

If that's the case, then to block the top while camping would be unnecessary overkill, right?

 

[JIM L-HILO]

Hi cptmoney
If you are sure that your cables are good for their entire lengths check the cable pulleys to make sure none are broken. These cables may have been replaced before, made up locally and the lengths were not correct. If these are hi-lo cables the stretch on the rear cables looks excessive. If the cables and pulleys are ok and the top close to level, its ok to saw the two adjustment bolts shorter. Check under the top bottom rails at the attachment points for the cables for any damage. Other ways to shorten the two rear cables is to cut the cables and replace the eyelets at the attachment point to the top. You could cut the cables and do a lap splice with swagged sleeves ONLY if there is enough free travel in the cable splice that the sleeves would not catch on a pulley or any other part of the trailer structure. This may work on some model trailers but not others. Another way to maybe take up some length, look at the pulley brackets on the rear cables and see if there is room to replace the pulleys with a larger diameter pulley. Pulleys can be found in unlimited diameters. If you decide to shorten the cables do not cut off the adjustment bolts. If you are not comfortable with doing any of the above, get a new set of cables from JR's. Their prices are reasonable. I am a aircraft mechanic and also worked in the skiing industry in lift maintenance so have knowledge in this area. Hope this helps.

 

[JIM L-HILO]

When I had my 17ft unit at Stahmann RV in New Braunfels a couple of weeks ago, they told me to raise my unit all the way up (little after you hear the safety bar catch) and then back it down onto the safety bar to take weight off the cables. Have any of you ever heard that recommendation? Made me think that the safety bar is holding the weight of the top.

They are wrong. When you back down onto the safety bar you take the weight off of the hydraulics not the cables.

 

[PopRichie77]

Getting new cables might not help, Hi-Lo did not keep records of the cable lengths. On older trailers JR Repair will ask you to measure the old cable as best you can, then they will supply a cable based on your measurement.
You could measure the one you have and tell them you want the new one 2 or 3 inches shorter.
The ones you have are fine, they are made with about 5 inches adjustment for variations.
You would only need new ones if there is no other problems that can't be fixed and you can't get the top up high enough for the seal to touch.

 

[cptmoney]

I've inspected my cables from underneath; as far as I can see they're in really good condition. So are my pulleys.

I will try and take a few pics of them this evening and post them here. Would love to know what you all think of them.

On my '94, there seems to be a combination of steel pulleys on the sides, and plastic pulleys underneath, if I recall correctly. I need to confirm that to be 100% sure.

 

[sting32]

So the catch is for hydraulic only? Is that enough?

So - do you block it when you're camping? Or do you trust your cables enough?

I'm thinking that maybe I should just replace them, for the peace of mind if nothing else.

I did make the adjustments in small increments, and ran it up and down a few times in the process (maybe 8 - 10 times)...but I anticipate it will still need to shake itself out in the next few raisings/lowerings.

Also - regarding the adjustment - after I'd made my adjustments, I noticed that it took a bit longer to hear the safety bar "latch". Part of that I'm attributing to my hydraulic pump being low on fluid - but perhaps part of it is the top going too far up. According to my meager assessment, it's not going quite far enough up just yet, but it's really, really close.

There are detailed instructions in how to area on how to adjust the cables. please note, the battery (I know MINE does) really gets used hard each time I go up. Like I have said, 30 foot long, 5th wheel. so even my brand new battery (just this past week) will run mine up and down about 4 (for this discussion sake maybe more times) before battery is dead. So, each time UP is slower than previous time, even if trickle charging while plugged in.

so, time it takes to take the cables to pull all 4 corners (about 14" inches of hydraulic cylinder travel on mine) changes anytime the battery hasnt had time to be fully recharged and ready to go up... BUT if your top is up before the catch is catching, you MIGHT HAVE adjusted the wrong cables, possibly. maybe the high side was too high, instead of the low side being too low and now your seals are hitting harder and pulling harder on the cables to reach the safety latch?

Great question, MEBradley. I'm wondering the same thing...

If that's the case, then to block the top while camping would be unnecessary overkill, right?

you know the difference between a salesman and a politician? the politician knows damn well that he is lying to you. the salesman (unless educated hilo's about the lift process & parts) has no clue. the "safety catch is to keep the hydraulic system from slowly letting itself down, as most hydraulic systems do. this is why you dont work on a car without jack stands, at least 50% of why, the other is of course in case you knock car off jack.

FWIW: This is no different than a popup tent trailer, except my tent trailer used a hand cranking winch to pull on a block, with all 4 cables attached to it tight, where as Hilo uses a hydraulic cylinder to move a plate that moves the cables.

At any rate, there is/are 2 possible failures present at all times even on a popup, without the safety latch. One is hydraulic cylinder getting a leak, popping a line, or in the popup: the singe cable to winch breaks, & whole top comes down, or any one of the 4 cables on the plate that the winch pulled on, failes, meaning usually a corner might drop a little bit.

My coleman even has a safety like the hilo does, when you winched top all the way up, the plate with 4 cables caught just like our bar does at the hydraulic cylinder. you had to pull a lever to start lowering the top with the same winch.

Look under there while you are looking at the cables, you will see the rod that the little loop of cable lifts on when lowering, which hooks the cylinder's big plate with the pullys on it, when fully extended... It is on TOP above the cylinder. again, It ONLY takes pressure off the pump/cylinder, because Hydraulics, they "WILL" settle over time, they just do, more so when using a powered pump. Even well built "good" bottle jacks will settle in a day (camping is usually more than a day).

this means that the cables are holding everything when unit's roof is anything but all the way down at rest on the little supports.

that is reason #1 to check these cables (maintenance). I believe it is reason #1 to not store with the roof up without support. WHen I camp, I can put the same boards in to hold it up, I dont. I trust stuff, especially that I know the following:
*** Everything mechanical has a finite number of hours, or uses before it fails. So, you subtract hours each and every hour the top is held up with cables. there might be a thousands of hours by average of over thousands of our cables, assuming they are prisitinely maintained, but there is NOT an exception, at some point in time/life cycles! --> they will fail

So I LIKE TO SAVE UP all my hours until failure in a little mythical "bag", by using supports when stored at home. It is that simple but of truth & logic, is why I do it. why waste the cable's usefull life while storing my camper, where I want it up so I dont have to run batter down raising it up and down each time I need to get in it.

 

[cptmoney]

Hey Sting32 -

I've seen the safety latch, and you're right: it's holding the plate after it (the plate) has been pushed all the way out.

Makes sense that a broken cable would still allow the roof to drop. It's actually much different that I had envisioned in my mind. Initially, I had a "fishhook barb" kinda mental image, catching some sort of internal pole on each corner. That would be a true "keep the roof from crashing down" sort of safety latch. However, the way it's set up on my Funlite is more for catching/stopping the hydraulic "fade" that's bound to happen over time. You're exactly right.

I'm fairly confident that I've adjusted the cables correctly; I tried to follow the instructions in my manual closely. One thing I figured out is that the support 4X4s that I cut are now too short; I cut them while the trailer was at it's initial "too low" height, and now that I've drawn up the top, I'd like to have supports that are about 2" or 3" taller. That would make supporting it at it's true "top" position much easier. Didn't know that when I cut them, tho - so I've got that in my "learned something new today" bag.

Also, your comment on the battery really rings true with my camper. Even though my battery is just a few days old, it's not a deep cycle battery, and I've used it now to raise/lower the unit approximately 10-15 times, all without much of a recharge other than what it may have received while towing. It's not plugged in at the house, and probably should be to allow the battery to juice up. I'll bet that will really change how she lifts the top.

Great stuff - thanks for the ideas! I'm soaking it all up -

 

[MEBradley]

safety catch on raising

Want to be clear that Stahmann RV maintenance didn't TELL ME that the weight of the top would be on the safety "BAR" when you back it down a bit to a stop position after raising. I cannot remember exactly what he said except he said it was a good idea to save on something. Don't want to give the idea they don't know what they are talking about, when in reality, it's me who doesn't listen well.