Fireballsocal
Senior Member
I'm pretty sure it's grease leaking from the hub. Could be it was overfilled the last time the bearings were re-packed. Could be the grease seal has gone bad.
rgcronk
Advanced Member
PopRichie77 "rgcronk, that wheel pic looks like someone painted the black center piece and it ran down the wheel, but I can't really tell from the pic. Pull the wheel there might not be anything wrong."
Fireballsocal "I'm pretty sure it's grease leaking from the hub. Could be it was overfilled the last time the bearings were re-packed. Could be the grease seal has gone bad."
Thank you for your suggestions. The black deposits were not there when I left on my long trip, and I don't think they were there at the half-way point in Illinois, which means they happened along the way back home, but I haven't gotten into that problem yet.
I have been trying to figure out what happened with the rock shield over the front window, and I think I have it deciphered. There are six holes on each side: two next to the window, two in the area of the present bracket but doing nothing--on one side filled with a filler, the other side with screws-- and the two that the bracket was mounted to before the wind tore them out in SD.
After surfing the net looking at pictures of Hi-Lo rock shields, I can see that the original shield was not much bigger than the window and the original mounting point for the brackets was next to the window. Apparently a previous owner had damaged the shield and replaced it with an oversized non-HiLo shield. The second set of unused holes was the location of the brackets when they tore out from wind or misuse before I got the trailer. The third set of holes is where the shield was remounted slightly offset from the second set of holes. Those were the holes caused when the SD wind tore the shield loose on my shift.
Thus, we have six holes, and with the current rock shield, none of them are useable. The skin they are mounted into is flexible and only about 1/8 inch thick--it wouldn't/didn't take much wind to whipsaw them right out of the skin. Light tapping of the skin in the area of the original screws next to the window reveals a solid "thunk" vs. "tink" lower down, which tells me the original was mounted into a window surround structural member.
The question now is, can I find a rock shield that will allow mounting into the solid window member? I have looked all over the web for a place that sells rock shields, without luck. I know there must be some place; do you have any ideas where to look? I would like to fix it with a Hi-Lo part, but anything that allows a solid fix is a candidate.
Once I have a reasonable solution for mounting the shield, I will have to clean the multiple holes and fill them with a solid patch. The material Hilltool suggested may do the trick; that part will have to wait until I figure out a rock shield solution. Any suggestions are welcomed.
Ron
Fireballsocal "I'm pretty sure it's grease leaking from the hub. Could be it was overfilled the last time the bearings were re-packed. Could be the grease seal has gone bad."
Thank you for your suggestions. The black deposits were not there when I left on my long trip, and I don't think they were there at the half-way point in Illinois, which means they happened along the way back home, but I haven't gotten into that problem yet.
I have been trying to figure out what happened with the rock shield over the front window, and I think I have it deciphered. There are six holes on each side: two next to the window, two in the area of the present bracket but doing nothing--on one side filled with a filler, the other side with screws-- and the two that the bracket was mounted to before the wind tore them out in SD.
After surfing the net looking at pictures of Hi-Lo rock shields, I can see that the original shield was not much bigger than the window and the original mounting point for the brackets was next to the window. Apparently a previous owner had damaged the shield and replaced it with an oversized non-HiLo shield. The second set of unused holes was the location of the brackets when they tore out from wind or misuse before I got the trailer. The third set of holes is where the shield was remounted slightly offset from the second set of holes. Those were the holes caused when the SD wind tore the shield loose on my shift.
Thus, we have six holes, and with the current rock shield, none of them are useable. The skin they are mounted into is flexible and only about 1/8 inch thick--it wouldn't/didn't take much wind to whipsaw them right out of the skin. Light tapping of the skin in the area of the original screws next to the window reveals a solid "thunk" vs. "tink" lower down, which tells me the original was mounted into a window surround structural member.
The question now is, can I find a rock shield that will allow mounting into the solid window member? I have looked all over the web for a place that sells rock shields, without luck. I know there must be some place; do you have any ideas where to look? I would like to fix it with a Hi-Lo part, but anything that allows a solid fix is a candidate.
Once I have a reasonable solution for mounting the shield, I will have to clean the multiple holes and fill them with a solid patch. The material Hilltool suggested may do the trick; that part will have to wait until I figure out a rock shield solution. Any suggestions are welcomed.
Ron
Ron
Keep checking here. Now and then you get somebody "parting-out" a trailer. From your photos it is clear that we have a totally different set up, which is interesting, because otherwise, your 2001 19 footer looks very much like my 2001 22 footer except the end is different. I have a molded ( or vacu-formed: see photo) polyethelene end "cap" that fits over the end of my top section of the trailer and it has a recessed area that the stone guard fits in. It is reminiscent, sort of, of a clam-shell case that might fit on the back of your cell phone. You appear to have the same fiberglass paneling on the front as you do on the sides except for the top. My actual guard appears to be plastic. That said- your hypothesis makes sense. Your guard does look over sized. Getting Back to my original suggestion, G-FLEX MIGHT work at filling the holes and, once hardened, be something you could sand down and re-drill-or paint, but I would test that theory out on something before I tried it. You might want to call J&R to see if they have access to original stone guards. I have never dealt with them but many on this forum have and have found them very helpful. ---edited----actually, I have no idea what is on the front of yours the more I look at it. I found a 91 funlite on the web{ http://daleycampersales.com/ } that has a similar configuration but with aluminum siding. All the other 2001s I have seen have the full end cap and recessed opening for window/stone guard.
Rick
Keep checking here. Now and then you get somebody "parting-out" a trailer. From your photos it is clear that we have a totally different set up, which is interesting, because otherwise, your 2001 19 footer looks very much like my 2001 22 footer except the end is different. I have a molded ( or vacu-formed: see photo) polyethelene end "cap" that fits over the end of my top section of the trailer and it has a recessed area that the stone guard fits in. It is reminiscent, sort of, of a clam-shell case that might fit on the back of your cell phone. You appear to have the same fiberglass paneling on the front as you do on the sides except for the top. My actual guard appears to be plastic. That said- your hypothesis makes sense. Your guard does look over sized. Getting Back to my original suggestion, G-FLEX MIGHT work at filling the holes and, once hardened, be something you could sand down and re-drill-or paint, but I would test that theory out on something before I tried it. You might want to call J&R to see if they have access to original stone guards. I have never dealt with them but many on this forum have and have found them very helpful. ---edited----actually, I have no idea what is on the front of yours the more I look at it. I found a 91 funlite on the web{ http://daleycampersales.com/ } that has a similar configuration but with aluminum siding. All the other 2001s I have seen have the full end cap and recessed opening for window/stone guard.
Rick
Attachments
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PopRichie77
Senior Member
rgcronk,
Look in the Reference Library at the 2000 TowLite brochure, it looks just like yours.
It also looks like your cover is not the original as you said.
Look in the Reference Library at the 2000 TowLite brochure, it looks just like yours.
It also looks like your cover is not the original as you said.
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rgcronk
Advanced Member
Hi PopRichie--
I think you nailed it! I had come to the same conclusion, but hadn't thought about looking in the brochures. Interestingly, my trailer's VIN tag identifies it as a 1901 TL, but the tag shows it was manufactured 7/00. My interior looks the same as the 2001, different than the 2000, but the exterior looks like the 2000. It must be a 'tween model, kind of like the auto industry does when they introduce next year's model in the Fall of the year. I'll include a picture of the VIN tag so you can see what I am talking about. Reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song that went something like, "A 55-56-57-58 Cadillac Automobile."
I sent an e-mail to JR Repair last night, asking them whether HiLo could have a between model, made in 2000 but sold as a 2001. I am hoping JR has a HiLo rock shield, or at least a good suggestion of a way to brace the shield brackets so the next high wind doesn't tear them loose again.
I think I will wait to repair the holes until I figure out whether I can get a HiLo shield. When I look into the enlarged screw holes, it looks like the end cap is made from fiberglass, so I will have to find a compatible repair material. It would be nice to find a pre-colored patch material, so I don't have to sand and paint a larger area.
Maybe I will tackle the left rear wheel question today, while I wait to hear from JR Repair.
Ron
Attachments
PopRichie77
Senior Member
Yes, I know that song, LOL. Maybe JR can come up with something. You may find that the metal cap is missing or came off the hub on that wheel, have also saw them with a hole worn in the middle from wacking with a hammer to put on. Better way is to use a screw driver and tap around the flange on the cap, this causes no damage or distortion.
Another way to put the hub cap back on is to get a socket wrench that fits over it. Tap on the socket thus putting the cap on with even pressure on the flange all the way around.
PopRichie77
Senior Member
Your right Rich, but every body has a flat blade screw driver and if you go around it several times, it works.
Atlee
Senior Member
What you described is the way RV manufacturers do things. Their model years do not match with the calendar. A trailer manufactured in May of 2000 would be a model year 2000, while a trailer manufactured in July of 2000 would be a model year 2001.
My Roadtrek Class B is a RT model year 1996, but it's actually built on a 1995 Chevy chassis. With class B's, you can have a 1996 model year built on either a 19958 or 1996 vehicle chassis.
My Roadtrek Class B is a RT model year 1996, but it's actually built on a 1995 Chevy chassis. With class B's, you can have a 1996 model year built on either a 19958 or 1996 vehicle chassis.
rgcronk
Advanced Member
I'm B-a-a-ck!
I feel like I'm in one of the old Arnold Schwarzenegger movies: I'm b-a-a-c-k! After nearly two weeks, I am back to revive this old thread. Life just kept getting in the way of tackling the issues I had with my 1901T after my trip to the Midwest last month. I am still working, and nobody did my work while I was gone (although after taking nearly two weeks off and tasting a little of the free life, I am re-thinking that issue), and then we had a taste of the weather the rest of the country has been having. We were in the middle 90's over the weekend, so I just put the trailer on hold and hid out in the shade. Air conditioning is still pretty rare in this part of the country, so mostly on those hi-temp days, we just hide out.
The errant stone guard is still on hold. You may recall that those brutal S. Dakota winds tore the mounting brackets out of the trailer skin, and I have been somewhat in contact with JR Repair to see whether we can get a fix. They have not been easy to contact; phone calls and emails unanswered. I did get one email reply that said my stone guard appears to be from a newer model, and they did have a replacement for my model, but I have not heard back yet about some mounting questions I asked. I will try to call them again today. I don't blame them; I am in business, too, and sometimes a quick reply is just not possible. Maybe the fact that I am three time zones away is a factor.
Anyway, I decided to tackle the left rear wheel this morning, while temps were in the 60's (forecast to be near 80 today--a hot day for this locale). You might recall that when I looked the trailer over after my trip, I saw a blackened area radiating out from the hub. After I jacked the trailer up, I spun the wheel around a couple times, and heard and felt a pretty obvious rub, just short of a grind.
I went ahead and pulled the wheel, inspecting pieces as I went. The lug nuts were grease coated and dirty; the blackened area on the wheel appeared to be dirt-caked grease. Everything wiped off pretty easily with a clean rag. When I pulled the wheel, the plastic hub cover was actually relatively clean; I was anticipating spun grease on the inside, but nope, not there. The hub cover flange that fits between the wheel and the hub is worn through at several places at the angle where the flange bends, which would seem to indicate abrasive movement ... not sure what to make of that.
First inspection after pulling the bearing cover looked perfectly normal. The grease was normally-colored and adequate amount. I spun the hub without the wheel, and could feel a bit more resistance, and felt more pronounced but still light grinding. My impression was that the brake shoes were putting a bit more pressure on the hub than normal. I pulled the cotter key and the washer and bearing, inspecting as I went. Everything looked normal.
As I began to pull the hub, I felt strong resistance, almost a locking up. I tend to be careful--the old saying "measure twice and cut once""--applies, so when I felt the lock-up, I applied side-to-side outward light prying pressure. The hub came off with firm pressure far enough to get my fingers around the edge, but did move any further. I tried light prying with a nearby claw hammer, but when the hub did not easily come, I backed off.
Has anyone encountered the same kind of locking of the hub onto (I assume) the brake shoes when inspecting or repairing? I have done many brake jobs on the old shoe brakes in the past, and generally know what is in there, but I have not worked with electric brakes and prefer to be cautious going in. Shall I just pry the hub off, or will calamity ensue? I have read the brake threads on this forum, but I don't recall this particular issue.
It is lunch time here, so I think I will take a break and eat a sandwich, while I wait to see whether anyone has a ready answer. Maybe I will try JR Repair again, while I am at it. I appreciate your help.
Ron
I feel like I'm in one of the old Arnold Schwarzenegger movies: I'm b-a-a-c-k! After nearly two weeks, I am back to revive this old thread. Life just kept getting in the way of tackling the issues I had with my 1901T after my trip to the Midwest last month. I am still working, and nobody did my work while I was gone (although after taking nearly two weeks off and tasting a little of the free life, I am re-thinking that issue), and then we had a taste of the weather the rest of the country has been having. We were in the middle 90's over the weekend, so I just put the trailer on hold and hid out in the shade. Air conditioning is still pretty rare in this part of the country, so mostly on those hi-temp days, we just hide out.
The errant stone guard is still on hold. You may recall that those brutal S. Dakota winds tore the mounting brackets out of the trailer skin, and I have been somewhat in contact with JR Repair to see whether we can get a fix. They have not been easy to contact; phone calls and emails unanswered. I did get one email reply that said my stone guard appears to be from a newer model, and they did have a replacement for my model, but I have not heard back yet about some mounting questions I asked. I will try to call them again today. I don't blame them; I am in business, too, and sometimes a quick reply is just not possible. Maybe the fact that I am three time zones away is a factor.
Anyway, I decided to tackle the left rear wheel this morning, while temps were in the 60's (forecast to be near 80 today--a hot day for this locale). You might recall that when I looked the trailer over after my trip, I saw a blackened area radiating out from the hub. After I jacked the trailer up, I spun the wheel around a couple times, and heard and felt a pretty obvious rub, just short of a grind.
I went ahead and pulled the wheel, inspecting pieces as I went. The lug nuts were grease coated and dirty; the blackened area on the wheel appeared to be dirt-caked grease. Everything wiped off pretty easily with a clean rag. When I pulled the wheel, the plastic hub cover was actually relatively clean; I was anticipating spun grease on the inside, but nope, not there. The hub cover flange that fits between the wheel and the hub is worn through at several places at the angle where the flange bends, which would seem to indicate abrasive movement ... not sure what to make of that.
First inspection after pulling the bearing cover looked perfectly normal. The grease was normally-colored and adequate amount. I spun the hub without the wheel, and could feel a bit more resistance, and felt more pronounced but still light grinding. My impression was that the brake shoes were putting a bit more pressure on the hub than normal. I pulled the cotter key and the washer and bearing, inspecting as I went. Everything looked normal.
As I began to pull the hub, I felt strong resistance, almost a locking up. I tend to be careful--the old saying "measure twice and cut once""--applies, so when I felt the lock-up, I applied side-to-side outward light prying pressure. The hub came off with firm pressure far enough to get my fingers around the edge, but did move any further. I tried light prying with a nearby claw hammer, but when the hub did not easily come, I backed off.
Has anyone encountered the same kind of locking of the hub onto (I assume) the brake shoes when inspecting or repairing? I have done many brake jobs on the old shoe brakes in the past, and generally know what is in there, but I have not worked with electric brakes and prefer to be cautious going in. Shall I just pry the hub off, or will calamity ensue? I have read the brake threads on this forum, but I don't recall this particular issue.
It is lunch time here, so I think I will take a break and eat a sandwich, while I wait to see whether anyone has a ready answer. Maybe I will try JR Repair again, while I am at it. I appreciate your help.
Ron
rgcronk
Advanced Member
I decided to take a break and eat a sandwich, and while I was mulling over the process, came to the same conclusion. It has been too many years since I did this! I just finished a cup of coffee, and am about to head out the door to test our hypothesis.
Thanks, Rich.
Ron
jcurtis95
Senior Member
I am in complete agreement with Rich R. I have always replaced all my brake shoes and have run across this in the past. Probably, what happened was that when the shoes were initially installed, they were tightened too tight.
You actually are at a point of no return. The hub must come off. Try taking the tension off the brake shoe adjustment and that failing, you have to go for it and forcefully remove the drum. There is nothing to hold the drum on except the brake shoes. The worst you can expect is to have to replace the shoes, which I think is eminent, and turn the drums.
Give it the 'old college try'.
Jerry Curtis
2406T
rgcronk
Advanced Member
Aren't you supposed rest for an hour after eating and before you jump in?
I still have the workaday mentality: go-go-go. The midday sun has a way of cooking that out of you, however. It is only 76 degrees here, but crawling around on concrete with the sun directly overhead has wilted me just a bit, so I decided to take a break and cool down before I continue on my post-trip inspection.
You hit the mark, Rich. I backed the brakes off a tad, and easily pulled the hub. In spite of our efforts, however, with everything apart and all pieces analyzed, I can find no reason for the dirt-caked grease on my left rear wheel. Everything looks perfectly normal. So I repacked the bearing and re-assembled everything. I guess it will have to remain a mystery. One theory I am working on is that the super-heated temps through the Midwest (110 degrees in SD) liquified any stray grease around the hub, which then spun out onto the wheel. At least it gives me a peg to hang the question on.
Next up is pulling the wheels on the right side where I heard off and on squealing when braking. Having updated my learning on the left side, I hope that the right side goes a little easier.
I did try JR Repair around 4 PM EST, but got an answering machine (again). I guess my only option is keep trying. In the meantime I'll do a little research to find a good n' easy patch for the stone guard bracket screw holes that tore out of the end cap.
Ron
jcurtis95
Senior Member
RG,
What was the thickness of the remaining brake shoes? When they get to 1/16", they are due for replacement.
Jerry Curtis
2406T
What was the thickness of the remaining brake shoes? When they get to 1/16", they are due for replacement.
Jerry Curtis
2406T
PopRichie77
Senior Member
It's common practice to coat the wheel center hole with grease or anti cease, on wheels that fit tight to the hub especially alloy wheels to prevent them from corroding fast. Steel wheels will rust fast also if a tight fit. The previous person that removed the wheels may have done this but used a little to much grease. Can't remember if it is necessary on HI-Lo wheels, but mechanics do this without even thinking.
I'm glad you had success. I think sometimes a buildup of brake dust will cause squealing. The boys at JR Repair, Jim and Rob, are the sum and total of the company. My dealer friend says Jim is the hands on repair guy and Rob is more the up front guy, so I think thy are usually up to their ears in work. Keep trying and you will eventually get in touch. They are pretty straight shooters.
rgcronk
Advanced Member
I remembered your previous thread, Jerry, and checked the thickness of the brakes when the hub was off. I didn't measure, but am usually good with dimensions. The shoes are more than 1/8", maybe as much as 1/4".
Considering the excellent condition of the innards on the left, I suspect Rich is right, and I am not going find much wrong on the right--brake dust may be causing the squealing. I am going to head out there right now and check it out.
PopRichie, your idea about the grease on the wheel is a perfect fit.
Thanks everyone for all your help.
Ron
rgcronk
Advanced Member
Brakes?
A new kink in the process. When I pulled the right rear hub (after backing off the shoes a few notches), I saw that the primary (rear) shoe liner was cracked the entire length--maybe a fingernail thickness wide. I did a quick check around the web, including the Dexter manual, and saw that "hairline" cracks are considered normal and acceptable.
The question is: what constitutes a "hairline crack?" Since my lining crack runs lengthways and appears to be an even height throughout, I assume it is okay. At the same time, because it runs slightly side-to-side like a river's course, it makes sense that it could present an edge to the rotating hub and cause a squeal.
I am inclined to just close it all up--the bearings/grease look great and the inner hub surface is a smooth as silk--and run it a while. Any thoughts?
Ron
A new kink in the process. When I pulled the right rear hub (after backing off the shoes a few notches), I saw that the primary (rear) shoe liner was cracked the entire length--maybe a fingernail thickness wide. I did a quick check around the web, including the Dexter manual, and saw that "hairline" cracks are considered normal and acceptable.
The question is: what constitutes a "hairline crack?" Since my lining crack runs lengthways and appears to be an even height throughout, I assume it is okay. At the same time, because it runs slightly side-to-side like a river's course, it makes sense that it could present an edge to the rotating hub and cause a squeal.
I am inclined to just close it all up--the bearings/grease look great and the inner hub surface is a smooth as silk--and run it a while. Any thoughts?
Ron
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