Rats. Just bought 1988 with undisclosed issues

[Machta]

Well, darn it! I have been lurking on this forum for a long time in anticipation of buying and fixing up a Hi-Lo. We finally took the plunge and bought one off eBay, but I should have listened to all of you A LOT better. Even though the seller said it was in good condition (specifically they said that the frig needed a net thermostat and that there were a few light bulbs missing), we started the cleanup today and it turns out there are a number of issues, the worst being water damage in three walls (both sides and the rear). There's no bowing or sagging, but the wallpaper is delaminating, the under layer is punky, and one set of overhead cabinets is in danger of falling down.

So, I've emailed the seller and asked for a refund, but I figure that's a long shot. It's a 1988 longer model, probably 26'. The floor plan has the kitchen and dinette in the front, the jacknife sofa amidship, and the corner bathroom and bed in the rear. The furnace works nicely, as does the stove and oven. The FM radio is delightful, with nice sound. We think that the water pump & heater are still good, but not sure. Air conditioner we haven't even tried. Upholstery and sigh in good condition, although some more cleaning is in order.

So I am asking all of you wise people for advice now that I've really screwed this deal up. We had planned on 2-3 days with of hard work cleaning and fixing up the little things, but we just aren't ready to tear in to walls. We have a business to run that can't be left not ended for that long! We have about $2400 in the deal so far. Is this thing worth trying to sell, with the assumption that we would, of course, disclose all the flaws we have found, or should we try to part it out? Hiring someone to work on the walls is probably not in the budget.

Any ideas?

(I don't have photos to post yet, but if you go in ebay and search recently completed listings for a 1988 in New Ulm, TX, that's the one we bought. We paid to have it shipped to our house in Colorado.)

Thanks in advance,
Liz

 

[sam-HILO]

What to do with your Used leaking HiLo.

I am so sorry the seller was dishonest with you. That is why it is important to check it out in person. My best advice since you can't devote the time to fix it is to try and sell it or part it out. You probably would make more $ parting it out. You may just have to tarp it up good and wait until the spring to either sell it or part it out.

 

[jcurtis95]

Liz,

Have you thought about Ebay's highly publicized buyer protection plan? Might want to check it out if you get no positive response from the buyer;

eBay Buyer Protection Page


Jerry Curtis
2406 T
Federicksburg, TX

 

[Machta]

Sam & Jerry, thanks for your replies. Jerry, what I have learned is that eBay's Buyer Protection Plan does not cover older vehicles, even if the description is inaccurate. Apparently my only recourse is to leave negative feedback, and you can bet your lotto ticket that if they don't own up to this and try to make it right, I sure will!

Sam, your suggestion is just about the conclusion we had come to. We have a place to store it at no cost, so we will probably make sure it's ready for winter, tarp it, and park it. It would be sad if it were parted out, because it has a lot of life left in it, but . . . That may be our best alternative.

Thanks for your thoughts. We REALLY appreciate it!

Liz

 

[JackandJanet]

You may not have to do a lot of "replacing". Any leak will cause staining, but it doesn't always cause structural damage. I'd look at everything critically before you give up on it.

- Jack

 

[sam-HILO]

Winter storage

Make sure you put RV antifreeze in it so it makes it through the winter without further dammage. If you part it out you could use the frame for a utility trailer. Youtubr has videos on how to winterize. Post pictures of the interior so we can give you input on what we think of the dammage.

 

[jdb-HILO]

check it out

What are u planning on using it for?Thats the real question. Are u planning on living in it, or just camping out? Did you want a showpiece, or a comfortable spot away from home? 2400. isnt so bad. It's all in what you want out of it.
Hope you can save it. If not, then learn from it. To me, they're like puzzles.

 

[jcurtis95]

Liz,

Jack brought out an excellent point, that being that although water stains are showing does not indicate structural damage is present. You may have some surface damage which affects the aesthetics and could cause health issues [mold] but not affect the structural stability. You used the word "punky" to describe the damage, if by that you mean the 1/8" wall panel has gotten wet and dried out and now it is splintering underneath the wallpaper laminate, that may not be as difficult to remedy as you think. Before undertaking or contemplating any interior repairs, you should look the roof over very closely [or have a professional look at it] to see if the source of the interior damage has been fixed.

There have been several posts dealing with roof, wall, ceiling repair due to a leaky roof. Both gearyk and I [jcurtis95] have done extensive repairs on our roofs and gearyk has done some major ceiling repair on the interior, and I will soon be doing the interior ceiling repair on our Hi Lo. I do not know the extent yet but my initial thinking is that I will have to remove all the elastic laminate on the ceiling, allow a couple of weeks of heat and fans to complete remove the moisture fom the plywood underneath the elastic, then apply new Luan ceiling panels ala gearyk and paint it to our tastes.

You might use the 'search' option to see various techniques used to address your issue. You might start here: http://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f25/roof-repair-1685/

Fortunately we had bought an insurance policy to cover damage on our RV and I filed a claim and as yet have not heard back from the claims department ;we are presently RV'ing on the Texas Coast and should have information when we return in December.

I would recommend you check the extent of the source of the leakage and then determine a course of action.

Good Luck.

Jerry Curtis
2406 T

 

[garyk52]

Liz, Take it from someone who has gone thru what you are considering doing. Just take one step at a time and you will be surprised at what can be accomplished. Without photos it's hard to say how much damage you have. I spent almost a year fixing mine, but I had quite a bit of rot on the upper walls and ceiling. I rebuilt quite a bit of the walls and ceiling before I covered them with new paneling, plus made my own trim which took a lot of time. As of right now I have approx $1500.00 without new tires in my rebuild. Now if I didn't own woodworking tools and know how to use them I probably would not have tried to rebuild the Hi-lo I bought at a super low price. Matter of fact I know I would have passed on this no matter the price if I didn't have the tools or skills.

 

[JIM L-HILO]

Hi Liz
You have a very active HiLo club in Colorado, so seek some help from that group. If you have a problem finding a member their, get back with me here and I will give you the ph# of a couple of members in Colo Spgs.

 

[Machta]

Gosh, you all are sure helpful! My husband and I really appreciate all the good ideas!

So to update you as to where we are right now, we think we have it winterized, and my husband continues to work on that. He's still figuring out how to get the antifreeze in the system, but at least it's drained.

I did contact the seller, and according to her they only bought this a few months ago to use at a job site, but never did. She says she was unaware of the problem. She has said she will give me at least a partial refund, which will at least decrease the amount of money we have hanging out there.

With regards to the extent of the damage, on the passenger wall from about halfway back to near the corner the wallpaper is crinkly and breaks easy. When I say the under layer is punky, I guess I mean that it swelled up with the water and is all crumbly to the point where the screws for the curtains, blinds, and upper cabinet have fallen out. The upper cabinet is very unstable. There are similar spots (but not as bad) on the driver side wall.

But the back wall has me really cpncerned. There are visible water stains around the rear window, and the trim piece by the shower on the *lower* wall is rotted and black. There is a strong (to me, anyway) musty and mildewed odor in and near the bathroom.

While we really, sincerely appreciate all your wonderful suggestions, this is just not a project we can take on right now. Based on the seller's description, we were all set to clean and fix trim and minor problems, but there's just no way we can start tearing out rotted fiberboard and repairing walls.

I'm kicking myself for not heeding the advice many of you have posted again and again on this forum, to check it out in person before you buy. This is the first time we have ever bought a trailer off eBay, and the first time (out of the five trailers we have bought over the years) that we have gotten into trouble like this.

So chances are that once she refunds at least part of my purchase price we will have about $1200-$1500 in it. I will probably take a bunch of photos before we tarp & park it, and then put it up for sale. We did receive all the original documentation, so I know it's a Bonvoyage 1988 27' rear bed model. Do you all think that's a reasonable number for a project trailer like this? Do any of you want to consider it?

Again, thank you all so much for your kind words and good ideas, and for letting me vent. God bless you all!

Liz

 

[RichR]

To put antifreeze in look for a valve with a hose attached to it on the inlet side of the water pump. If you have this you just have to turn the valve and stick the hose into a jug of the antifreeze. Pump the antifreeze into the system, one valve at a time, starting at the furthest from the pump and work your way toward the pump. Do not pump into the water heater, there should be a bypass for that. Don't forget the shower, toilet, the city water connection, and outside shower. It should only take a gallon or a little more to do the whole job.

 

[sam-HILO]

HiLo water dammage.

If you could post pictures of the areas with water dammage that would give us a better understanding of your problems.

 

[Machta]

We got it winterized, thanks for your help! I will try to take photos and post them this afternoon.

Thanks for all your help and support. It means a lot to us that a group of people whom we have never met in person are willing to give us the benefit of your experience and expertise. God bless you all!

 

[sam-HILO]

Repairing wall dammage.

Just wanted to give you an idea of the dammage you describe. Defenitely you are talking total wall tearout. We spent around $2000.00 to do our 1990 restoration. I think you would have to sell the trailer under a obo price. When the screws are rusty and cabinents,curtains rods won't stay on the wall this means a total ripout to the fiberglass or aluminum skin.click on this link to see the restoration http://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f20/restoration-pictures-word-descriptions-2779/

 

[Machta]

Thanks for all the info, everyone! Sorry I haven't posted photos yet. We have a new wrinkle in the deal. The "seller" bought the trailer from someone else last August, and never put it in their name. The documentation they gave me was a registration from Alabama (where apparently older trailers aren't titled, just registered) and a bill of sale that was signed & witnessed, but without the buyer info filled in. The state of Colorado requires that in this case, because it's a registration and not a title, the bill of sale has to be notarized.

So now I have sent a nice letter to the guy in Alabama from whom "my" seller bought the trailer asking if he would pretty please have the bill of sale notarized. If not . . . the nice ladies at my local DMV said to come back and see them and they would help figure out the next step.

Lesson learned to all of us: don't buy sight unseen, and before you give the seller money, make darned sure that the title can be transferred to your name. I have learned so much from this escapade already, but hopefully I never have to use any of this knowledge again.

God bless you all. I REALLY appreciate your help and support!

Liz

 

[Machta]

Good afternoon, all! If you have followed our saga in buying this 1988 Bonvoyage 27' from eBay, you'll be happy to know that we think we have a way to title the trailer now. Hopefully by January we will have clear title to the trailer.

It turns out that a good friend of my brother's who is in the RV repair/manufacturing industry is willing to be a consultant for us as we work on the water damage in the walls and ceiling, so we have decided to tackle this trailer.

Since we have to take everything off the walls and ceiling in at least the back third of the trailer, we decided to rearrange the layout differently as well. So, I will be posting in the "Other stuff for sale" category with various items over the next few weeks. Let me know if you need something specific, and we'll see if we're going to use it or not. Wish us luck!

Liz

 

[sam-HILO]

Repairing your trailer.

Wow,a good turn of events. Hope you don't mind a little bit of advice. Absolutely love the older trailers as they are repairable and sturdy.!! First I would start by cutting cardboard and covering your floor. Use duct tape at the seams. Cover your counters(didn't do this and had to scrape and clean my counter tops a million times.) Protect your sink with plastic or old towel. A good thick roll of plastic will be used to cover couches ect. Take pictures and measured drawings of curtain hardwear. Take pictures of cupboard plaacement ect. Don't get rid of any parts until you are totally done!! You can do this restoration. Take all the time you need to do this restoration. No one is rushing you. Do it once and do it right. If possible when you rip out wall paneling take it out in one big piece so you can use it for a pattern. When you remove the cupboard put he thin lining back in it right away. We forgot to do this and would of had to take the cupboard down and start again. We will be here for you every step of the way. If you could buy this trailer today you would probably be talking $35.000 dollars. I will send you a PM.

 

[DeLana]

Liz -- It seems that you are becoming interested and committed to repairing this Hi-Lo. However, quite frankly, it is clear that your seller sold you this Hi-Lo under false pretenses. Notwithstanding disclosure of the flaws, the seller did NOT have title to the Hi-Lo, i.e., sold a camper that he didn't own and knowingly did so. That is fraud. Before I would do any wheeling and dealing with the TRUE owner of the camper or put any money into this Hi-Lo, I think I would have a consultation with your friendly neighborhood lawyer to determine if the seller(s) can be charged with a criminal act. If that were the case, I bet being served with a warrant would have your money returned to you in no time flat.

Dee

 

[Machta]

Dee, thank you so much for the good reminder! We actually have already talked to a good friend who is an attorney, as well as the DMV in our state (Colorado) as well as the DMV in the state where the trailer was most recently registered (Alabama). We do think we can register the trailer after doing more paperwork, but my husband and I just had the discussion about not spending any more money (as opposed to time) on it until I am SURE we can get clear title.

If we can't get clear title, I will part it out and get what I can from it, and then try again. With regards to the "seller," they basically gave us our money back and told us to keep it, so right now we are only out the transportation fee of about $800 and another $40 or so for the stuff to winterize it. I am pretty sure I can get that amount back out of it if we have to part it out.

But thank you again for the reminder! We really appreciate it!

Liz