Tow hardware

[cware48420]

Seems all I see in trucks is auto transmissions and agreed, they are easier to use but "sticks" usually get better mileage on vehicle identically equipped.
Is the answer, just convenience?

I'm looking at a Hi Lo that has a TW of 360# dry, trailer weight of 3600# dry and max tow weight of 5100#.

So, if I bought a used GM truck (1500), what engine would you recommend for towing a max of 5500 pounds? Would a 350 c.u.i. be sufficient?

What is your opinion of the WDH's with built in sway control such as the Reese? Are they effective or should you have something else?

Ya, lotta" questions, eh?

Thanks-Jerry

 

[RCREYES]

Seems all I see in trucks is auto transmissions and agreed, they are easier to use but "sticks" usually get better mileage on vehicle identically equipped.
Is the answer, just convenience?

I'm looking at a Hi Lo that has a TW of 360# dry, trailer weight of 3600# dry and max tow weight of 5100#.

So, if I bought a used GM truck (1500), what engine would you recommend for towing a max of 5500 pounds? Would a 350 c.u.i. be sufficient?

What is your opinion of the WDH's with built in sway control such as the Reese? Are they effective or should you have something else?

Ya, lotta" questions, eh?

Thanks-Jerry

Jerry, you can google towing guides XXXX putting in the year of the TV you are looking at, and it will tell you what you can pull.

As for WDH's, I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinions. I think the biggest differences are the ease of use. For example, Equal-I-Zer is pretty much an all-in one with no additional sway bar needed. I use a Curt Trunnion with a sway bar. Overall, a WDH will do the same thing no matter what brand you get. You can go to etrailer.com or youtube and check out videos on them.

 

[JackandJanet]

I think Ruben hit the nail on the head with his suggestions. I WILL say, since I have one, that Equal-I-Zer is probably among the most expensive kind of WDH. It is also heavy and noisy. That does not make it better. Anything that transfers the weight and can dampen sway is all you need.

You are going to find it hard, I think to get a "stick type" clutch transmission in any large, modern tow vehicle. In my opinion, the straight stick is becoming rare as a dodo. With that in mind, I believe an automatic is perfectly fine and will be durable if you get the towing option that includes a higher gear ratio and extra transmission cooling. My gut tells me, Jerry, that you are not going to abuse the transmission by drag racing your vehicle. The only other bit of advice I'll give on this is to use the shift lever to minimize the amount of work that the transmission is doing. You don't want it constantly shifting up and down and you don't want the torque converter constantly unlocking and locking back up. When I get into hilly country, I often lock out overdrive, and, if the hills are particularly steep either up OR down, I generally put the transmission into 2nd gear. In other words, I let the transmission's behavior tell me how to use it.

I can't give you a good opinion on engine size, but from my experience: A larger engine will not have to work as hard as a small one when towing. I have a 5.4L engine in my truck, which is about 330 cu in, so I'd say your choice of 350 is fine. It should have plenty of towing "pull".

Of more importance is the gear ratio AND, the suspension. Assume the trailer hitch combination might add around 800# to the load the tow vehicle carries, then add in the weight of people and extra equipment you are going to haul. Check the door sticker for the axle load limits and find out what the unloaded vehicle weight of the truck is. You might be surprised how easy it is to reach those limits.

A safer choice would be a truck in the 2500 (GM, Dodge) or 250 (Ford) series. Their suspensions have a much higher cargo capacity.

Hope these thoughts help.

- Jack

 

[charlie b-HILO]

I am afraid you will run out of truck before you run out of engine with this combo. You should have at least a 3/4 ton truck. I tried towing with a 1/2 ton and it was fine for a 3800 pound empty trailer, but it would never handle a larger one. With the smaller V8 you need lower rear end ratio to handle the pull. Bigger trucks are heavier and need a bigger engine, and use more fuel but the small engine will guzzle fuel like no tomorrow while pulling hard.
Bigger TVs have heavier rear ends and transmissions as well as transmission coolers, wheels, brakes, springs and tires. I think you will be happier with a bigger TV what ever the make. Sometimes you can find a good used diesel pretty cheap. That's what I did, I found a one ton diesel van about half the cost of a pickup built the same year. (and even with the higher cost of fuel it is cheaper to run than the pickup was.)
Charlie

 

[Wrascal]

I'm late to this event (I was told I would! enjoy this Valentines party), I'm sorry. I'm in agreement with above comments but believe your original assessment on todays auto tranny's is in error.

I too grew up on stick shifts (56 Studebaker pickup/ three on the tree), I love em'. With that said everything I've read for the last 15-20 years lean toward favoring the autos as being More Efficient AND equally reliable over rowing your own gears.

Second note - if you carefully read ALL the specs I think you'll find there are many trucks (F150/1500 family) that can pull a good load but are Unable to legally handle the payloads many of those same heavier trailers place on them. That's marketing - selling you something but surrounded by invisible asterisks.

I reluctantly gave up my last stick shift two years ago. Here's a Vodka & OJ toast to her.

 

[C317414]

Most truck manufacturers publish a towing guide. Look up the one from GM for the year of truck that you are interested in. It will list the engines and options required for various tow weights.

 

[cware48420]

In the early 70's I bought a used F250 to haul a 10' truck camper and it did well. Of course, it had the right gear ratio, trans-cooler and split rims.

I remember during the research stage of that purchase, reading brochures from the auto companies and a great number of the 1/2 ton trucks were close to being overloaded sitting in the sales lots. As I remember, a 1/2 yard of stone would have put many over their weight limits.

I've been thinking lately, I'd be better off trading my Buick, '08 Enclave for a late model Yukon. GMC has a varied combination of engines and rear ends in their towing packages (3 different gear ratios, trans coolers and tow switches) close to 7K#).

The past few days I've been looking on line, seeing a lot of Yukon's on CraigsList in the southern states. Many have "skinny" tires and I suspect those tires are not adequate for towing. A lot look like "pimp-mobiles".

Many ads state, "clean titles in hand" and I assume that means the titles do not indicate "salvage" and have no liens? Does it mean anything more?

I'm also seeing warnings to conduct inspections/sales at police stations or public areas for security. In the past I've paid for items at the "Secretary of State" office after the title is transferred but certainly, using a police parking lot would be more secure.-J

 

[campthewestcoast]

In the early 70's I bought a used F250 to haul a 10' truck camper and it did well. Of course, it had the right gear ratio, trans-cooler and split rims.

I remember during the research stage of that purchase, reading brochures from the auto companies and a great number of the 1/2 ton trucks were close to being overloaded sitting in the sales lots. As I remember, a 1/2 yard of stone would have put many over their weight limits.

I've been thinking lately, I'd be better off trading my Buick, '08 Enclave for a late model Yukon. GMC has a varied combination of engines and rear ends in their towing packages (3 different gear ratios, trans coolers and tow switches) close to 7K#).

The past few days I've been looking on line, seeing a lot of Yukon's on CraigsList in the southern states. Many have "skinny" tires and I suspect those tires are not adequate for towing. A lot look like "pimp-mobiles".

Many ads state, "clean titles in hand" and I assume that means the titles do not indicate "salvage" and have no liens? Does it mean anything more?

I'm also seeing warnings to conduct inspections/sales at police stations or public areas for security. In the past I've paid for items at the "Secretary of State" office after the title is transferred but certainly, using a police parking lot would be more secure.-J

Clean title would also mean that the seller is on the title to the property and the right to sell it. I once inquired on a trailer, and found out that the title was in the deceased father's name only. As a result, we passed.

 

[Mel Goddard]

I think Ruben hit the nail on the head with his suggestions. I WILL say, since I have one, that Equal-I-Zer is probably among the most expensive kind of WDH. It is also heavy and noisy. That does not make it better. Anything that transfers the weight and can dampen sway is all you need.

You are going to find it hard, I think to get a "stick type" clutch transmission in any large, modern tow vehicle. In my opinion, the straight stick is becoming rare as a dodo. With that in mind, I believe an automatic is perfectly fine and will be durable if you get the towing option that includes a higher gear ratio and extra transmission cooling. My gut tells me, Jerry, that you are not going to abuse the transmission by drag racing your vehicle. The only other bit of advice I'll give on this is to use the shift lever to minimize the amount of work that the transmission is doing. You don't want it constantly shifting up and down and you don't want the torque converter constantly unlocking and locking back up. When I get into hilly country, I often lock out overdrive, and, if the hills are particularly steep either up OR down, I generally put the transmission into 2nd gear. In other words, I let the transmission's behavior tell me how to use it.

I can't give you a good opinion on engine size, but from my experience: A larger engine will not have to work as hard as a small one when towing. I have a 5.4L engine in my truck, which is about 330 cu in, so I'd say your choice of 350 is fine. It should have plenty of towing "pull".

Of more importance is the gear ratio AND, the suspension. Assume the trailer hitch combination might add around 800# to the load the tow vehicle carries, then add in the weight of people and extra equipment you are going to haul. Check the door sticker for the axle load limits and find out what the unloaded vehicle weight of the truck is. You might be surprised how easy it is to reach those limits.

A safer choice would be a truck in the 2500 (GM, Dodge) or 250 (Ford) series. Their suspensions have a much higher cargo capacity.

Hope these thoughts help.

- Jack

Hey; you want expensive and heavy hitch?
Try a Hensley! Very much coin and weight!

 

[Mel Goddard]

I am afraid you will run out of truck before you run out of engine with this combo. You should have at least a 3/4 ton truck. I tried towing with a 1/2 ton and it was fine for a 3800 pound empty trailer, but it would never handle a larger one. With the smaller V8 you need lower rear end ratio to handle the pull. Bigger trucks are heavier and need a bigger engine, and use more fuel but the small engine will guzzle fuel like no tomorrow while pulling hard.
Bigger TVs have heavier rear ends and transmissions as well as transmission coolers, wheels, brakes, springs and tires. I think you will be happier with a bigger TV what ever the make. Sometimes you can find a good used diesel pretty cheap. That's what I did, I found a one ton diesel van about half the cost of a pickup built the same year. (and even with the higher cost of fuel it is cheaper to run than the pickup was.)
Charlie

Are you advocating using a 'locomotive' to tow a 'flyer' wagon????
Good Grief!

 

[JackandJanet]

Are you advocating using a 'locomotive' to tow a 'flyer' wagon????
Good Grief!

Mel, I think the problem is really the axle loading caused by a potential tongue weight in the 750# + range (10-15% of the trailer weight). You don't need a bigger engine to pull a trailer that size, but you might need a stronger suspension.

My F150 is loaded almost to the axle limits with the trailer and other things we take when we go camping.

- Jack

 

[HardlyLurking]

Sometime in the 90s the manual transmissions began to get more fragile and the autos more robust, with the result that you can't really buy a truck built in the last decade that's good for towing with a manual trans. This is I think because the manual option was seen as the cheap stripper option so they started making them as cheap as possible.

The exception to this trend may be some of the Cummins Dodges but even then I think they have switched around over the last few years.

Also back in the day, they used to build trucks on one frame, maybe two the superduty one tonners might have got the same construction as the 1 1/2 commercials.. but the half, 3/4 and lower end 1 tonners all had the same frame.

Since at least 2000 they've been making 1/2 tonners on lightweight frames, and 3/4 tonnes and up got their own heavier frames. So while you can spec a half tonne up into pseudo 3/4 tonne ratings, it's still on the lightweight half tonne frame. This might not be of consequence to weekenders but anyone who tows practically daily may come to notice this structural deficiency. It may have some effect on handling though near full load, because of course it's not going to be as rigid.

Then there's the stupidity of giving the bigger tow ratings to the more optioned up trucks often without much in the way of "axle" meaning spring upgrades, while piling on the weight. So you start with "stripper" single cabs having a 1850 payload but only 5000 towing, and get "up" to pimped out supercabs that are down to 1300, even 1200 payload yet somehow can now tow 8000lb. Meanwhile buyers are thinking they can stuff a body in all 6 supercab seats, throw a few hundred pounds of supplies and bikes in the bed and still tow 8000. Must keep the dealers happy, suckering people out of $50k for something with the "real" capacity of a Ford Taurus wagon.

Then of course, they pander to the crowd with a pathological aversion to letting the poor thing downshift, if they've got a load, it's got to be able to slog up whatever hill at 1500 RPM in top gear. This they think is lightly using the engine and transmission. Nope, it's trying to force it to lug, and tending to put maximum shear stress on clutch packs and gear teeth, meanwhile running the engine fan and transmission pump relatively slowly, with little induction air to help, while being in a very poor BSFC range for most motors, resulting in about 25 to 30% more of the fuel energy getting wasted in heat getting put into the motor. So you get stories like "Hell I killed a 6.0 V8 going up Satan's Armpit last summer, won't buy less than a V10 now...." Meanwhile I bet plenty of guys with 4.5s or so went up it just fine in 3rd gear, 3000 RPMish working in peak efficiency range, good fan, waterpump and transmission pump flow, good induction flow... and were only worried if they listened to clowns like that.

So, IMO, if you can get/keep moving well enough with up to about 3500 RPM, you've got enough motor, check where torque peak is. Let the poor thing downshift.

 

[gus-HILO]

my 1981 hi-lo came with a xerox copies of the owner manual, not sure what happened to the originals, but the front page had a 1981 hi-lo picture being pulled by a probably 1980 or 1981 Chevy Malibu, I looked up the power spec for that year, the hp start from 110, 115 for the v6's and 140, 170 for the v8's.
people were still towing campers and boats with vehicles with these power ratings, true most had rear wheel drive, body on frame, but still they managed to do it, engines and transmissions didn't last as long as engines these days, but there are plenty of 4 cylinder cars these days that get 170hp.
HardlyLurking is right in that you have to let the engine and transmission do its work to develop the most power and that is NOT done at 1500 rpm.

 

[allenr]

I'll add my 2 cents to that. Our 6.0 chevy gas engine will run about 2300 to 2400 RPM at 65 mph and will climb a mild hill without down shifting.
If the going gets a little tougher and it downshifts I'll hold it at 3000 RPM and it will climb most hills at that engine speed.
If the hill gets a little steeper and some do, I'll run it up to 3500 RPM and at that point I can almost always stay in the left lane because there is no one keeping up.
That's with our 29 ft. Hi-Lo in tow.

 

[RichR]

My little motto is: "Slow down and shift down." They put lower gears in transmissions for a good reason.

 

[Luckydog671]

My little motto is: "Slow down and shift down." They put lower gears in transmissions for a good reason.

Agreed, I've found the bigger issue is stopping the rig, not pulling it!

 

[allenr]

I like the slow down idea myself. As for my better half and a few hours in the truck she will almost always say, gas isn't that expensive. As for the truck 65 mph seems to be the beginning of its sweet spot. It has a 371 or is it 373 rear gear. That 6.0 has been around a long time and you only have to use one in a tow vehicle to know why.

 

[HardlyLurking]

Agreed, I've found the bigger issue is stopping the rig, not pulling it!

That's the truth. I know manufacturers have warranty issues with the mechanically unsympathetic not knowing when to back off, but it pees me off to see smaller engined vehicles rated lower than larger engined vehicles when the brakes and suspension are the exact same. Sure it gets it moving slower but you can still probably out-drag a loaded semi. They're about around 400HP trying to get 40,000lb moving, so until you're trying to shift 10,000lb with 100HP you're doing better.